I've been a Certified Firearms Instructor since '92, and have trained a legion of range officers and run a ton of people through marksmanship courses. This would not have happened had I been on-site, without massive complaints. There is enough fail to go around for every participant. AB will probably not be incarcerated, anymore than the chump (sorry, he gets in this thread for the following reasons) will, because of their wealth and fame. I hope that I'm wrong, on both counts.

Bear in mind that even before the shooting, there had been a shitton of safety complaints*, with many qualified people who probably would have prevented this either being fired and replaced with a non-Union scab to cut corners or walking off set and also being replaced with a non-union scab to cut corners. If you were on-site, there’s a good chance you’d have been off-site by the time the shooting happened.

* In addition to the shooting, there were also three reports of prop guns firing unintentionally. On top of that, there was poor COVID safety, and many crew members were left unpaid and without hotel rooms. And the production higher-ups stuck their heads in the sand about it until they couldn’t do it anymore.

(October 27, 2021 at 7:38 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(October 27, 2021 at 7:22 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: Utter bullshit.

The person who fires a gun is responsible for the outcome. I DEFY you to find any legal precidence otherwise.

Sure the armorer will have culpability - but the guy connected to the finger on the trigger is responsible.

I feel bad for all involved - but Mr Baldwin fucked up and MUST be held accountable.


"Gee - I thought it was unloaded/wasn' t real" is not a valid defense.

I find your lack.of commitment to responsibility shocking.

A child finds Daddy’s gun and accidentally shoots Mommy in the head and kills her. Is the child held accountable? No. Why? Because the father bears the responsibility of securing the firearm when a child is in the house. 

In much the same way, the armourer and the assistant director failed in their responsibility to make damned sure Baldwin had a prop gun without live rounds.

Try an analogy. You go to get your brakes fixed (yeah, yeah - you can do it yourself. Not the point). Your mechanic forgets to refill the brake fluid reservoir. On the way off the lot, your brakes fail and you crash into another car. When the cops arrive, the mechanic admits his mistake. Did you have a legal or ethical responsibility to check the fluid before you drive off?

Don’t be daft.

Boru

You analogies suck.

1. The kid is not an adult responsible for his actions. Mr Baldwin is.

2. If you don' t fill the resevoir the brake light comes on. If you are dumb enough to ignore warning lights -you should probably not be driving.

A gun is a gun is a gun. You pull the trigger and kill someone it is not an accident.

At best it is gross negligence.

(October 27, 2021 at 9:43 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Bear in mind that even before the shooting, there had been a shitton of safety complaints*, with many qualified people who probably would have prevented this either being fired and replaced with a non-Union scab to cut corners  or walking off set and also being replaced with a non-union scab to cut corners. If you were on-site, there’s a good chance you’d have been off-site by the time the shooting happened.

* In addition to the shooting, there were also three reports of prop guns firing unintentionally. On top of that, there was poor COVID safety, and many crew members were left unpaid and without hotel rooms. And the production higher-ups stuck their heads in the sand about it until they couldn’t do it anymore.

All the MORE reason Mr Baldwin should have checked the gun himself.



......

( not directed at Rev)


Ask yourself this - if someone handed you a gun at work - and told you it was loaded with blanks - and told you they wanted you to fire it at someone -

Would you do it?

Forget Mr Baldwin is a loved actor for a minute.

He did exactly that - took a gun someone told him contained blanks - and he fired it at someone.

....

He IS guilty ( by his own admission) of doing just that.

He killed someone because of someone else' s and his own negligence. He could have and he SHOULD have checked the gun.

He should not get a Ted Kennedy pass....

"IT WAS HIS JOB TO CHECK TO SEE IF THE GUN WAS LOADED!"

Meanwhile... kids killing kids with loaded guns left lying around by those 'responsible' adults, who never do prison time and those people shouting for Baldwin to go to jail are suspiciously silent about that.

And bearing in mind that, as Biker pointed out, a child is not responsible for their actions, if a child finds a loaded gun, fires it, and kills someone, does that not mean that whoever was supposed to be in charge of the weapons is at fault for leaving one, loaded, where a kid can get at it?

Yeah, how would it be his responsibility to check the gun since not all people know how to examine a gun?

And also from what I understand, when it comes to actors and the props they don't bother with it. They let other people dress them, put on the make-up, give them and check the props, etc while their only concern is acting.

(October 27, 2021 at 11:02 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: ( not directed at Rev)


Ask yourself this - if someone handed you a gun at work - and told you it was loaded with blanks - and told you they wanted you to fire it at someone -

Would you do it?

Forget Mr Baldwin is a loved actor for a minute.

He did exactly that - took a gun someone told him contained blanks - and he fired it at someone.

Hello Onlinebiker.

For me, personally, I'd treat anything shaped like a fire arm as dangerous. Yes that includes 'Nerf' shooters.

This is because of some basic training as well as having freinds who've gone through all the legal neccesities to own guns here.

However as Oldandeasilyconfused pointed out, in my country there aren't actually a whole load of guns around amongst the 'General' public.

I dare say a few of my co workers wouldn't know the first thing about 'Gun safety' practices. Though I'd wager most would given their backgrounds drawn from all across the world.

(October 27, 2021 at 11:50 pm)Divinity Wrote: "IT WAS HIS JOB TO CHECK TO SEE IF THE GUN WAS LOADED!"

Meanwhile... kids killing kids with loaded guns left lying around by those 'responsible' adults, who never do prison time and those people shouting for Baldwin to go to jail are suspiciously silent about that.

Any parent who lets their kids cause mayhem with a firearm should be in a cell adjoining Mr Baldwin's.

It is not the gun enthusists that cause this problem - but bleeding heart types who refuse to convict " those poor people".

---

(October 28, 2021 at 12:01 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: Yeah, how would it be his responsibility to check the gun since not all people know how to examine a gun?

And also from what I understand, when it comes to actors and the props they don't bother with it. They let other people dress them, put on the make-up, give them and check the props, etc while their only concern is acting.

If you don' t know how to handle a firearm - PUT THE MOTHERFUCKING THING DOWN!

You REALLY don' t think it' s the guy with the gun in his hand who is responsible for it?


Let' s test that theory.


....

Here is a gun. Take it in your hand. It is not loaded with live rounds.

Put it to your head.

Pull the trigger.


.....

When you do that- I will agree that you are not responsible.

You' re an irresponsible idiot.

Imagine no guns...