(April 2, 2022 at 1:25 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Confusing legality and morality is a common American malady.

To attribute it to confusion gives rather more credit to much of the population than they deserve.   In most cases it is ruthless self-interest.   Doing the illegal thing to serve self interest carries the risk of consequences that heavily outweigh the perspective value of the self interest.    Doing the legal but amoral thing to serve self interest actually provides legal protection against consequences.

(April 2, 2022 at 1:29 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:

(April 2, 2022 at 1:25 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Confusing legality and morality is a common American malady.

Is it illegal?  Is it unethical?  Would you do it? 

It's actually not illegal for me to dump non native fish in the creek.  It's highly unethical.  I'd certainly do it.

I make no claim to superior moral standards. I don't own a gun right now, though I could legally do so and have no intent of unethical use of it. I could use it to deal with the wildlife that shows up here, but there's plenty of ways to address that without spending the $ on an 870.

---

(April 2, 2022 at 1:48 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(April 2, 2022 at 1:25 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Confusing legality and morality is a common American malady.

To attribute it to confusion gives rather more credit to much of the population than they deserve.   In most cases it is ruthless self-interest.   Doing the illegal thing to serve self interest carries the risk of consequences that heavily outweigh the perspective value of the self interest.    Doing the legal but amoral thing to serve self interest actually provides legal protection against consequences.

I wasn't ascribing it to mental confusion, I was simply saying that confusing the two is widespread in the American public, for whatever reasons -- some of which are indeed deliberate rather than a result of mental deficiency.

All sorts of objectivity awful shit has been legal. If you don't believe this open a history book. Legalism is a flawed idealogy  

Guns help keep you safe...

Sacramento shooting: At least six dead in centre of California state capital
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-cana...gn=KARANGA

No thanks, it's safer to stay unsafe!

(April 2, 2022 at 1:48 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(April 2, 2022 at 1:25 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Confusing legality and morality is a common American malady.

To attribute it to confusion gives rather more credit to much of the population than they deserve.   In most cases it is ruthless self-interest.   Doing the illegal thing to serve self interest carries the risk of consequences that heavily outweigh the perspective value of the self interest.    Doing the legal but amoral thing to serve self interest actually provides legal protection against consequences.

If I find a particular law to be immoral or unjust, I break it as needed while being fully aware of potential consequences. Similarly, I find that I behave morally even when there’s no legal constraint to do so.

Boru

(April 3, 2022 at 10:30 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(April 2, 2022 at 1:48 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: To attribute it to confusion gives rather more credit to much of the population than they deserve.   In most cases it is ruthless self-interest.   Doing the illegal thing to serve self interest carries the risk of consequences that heavily outweigh the perspective value of the self interest.    Doing the legal but amoral thing to serve self interest actually provides legal protection against consequences.

If I find a particular law to be immoral or unjust, I break it as needed while being fully aware of potential consequences. Similarly, I find that I behave morally even when there’s no legal constraint to do so.

Boru

All the same, there is a relationship between morals and laws. Laws, in a sense, ride on the back of morals.

(April 3, 2022 at 10:34 am)Angrboda Wrote:

(April 3, 2022 at 10:30 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If I find a particular law to be immoral or unjust, I break it as needed while being fully aware of potential consequences. Similarly, I find that I behave morally even when there’s no legal constraint to do so.

Boru

All the same, there is a relationship between morals and laws.  Laws, in a sense, ride on the back of morals.

I don’t disagree that there’s a relationship, I’m just not convinced that there’s a one-to-one correspondence.

This was my point earlier, when I said that someone being a law abiding citizen isn’t enough to make them fit to own a firearm.

Boru

(April 3, 2022 at 11:23 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(April 3, 2022 at 10:34 am)Angrboda Wrote: All the same, there is a relationship between morals and laws.  Laws, in a sense, ride on the back of morals.

I don’t disagree that there’s a relationship, I’m just not convinced that there’s a one-to-one correspondence.

This was my point earlier, when I said that someone being a law abiding citizen isn’t enough to make them fit to own a firearm.

Boru

What hoops do you think they should jump through?

(April 3, 2022 at 12:40 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: What hoops do you think they should jump through?

Permits, and regular (i.e. every year or two) psychological exams to renew them. Hopefully, smart guns will be mandated to support this process going forward.

(April 3, 2022 at 12:40 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(April 3, 2022 at 11:23 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I don’t disagree that there’s a relationship, I’m just not convinced that there’s a one-to-one correspondence.

This was my point earlier, when I said that someone being a law abiding citizen isn’t enough to make them fit to own a firearm.

Boru

What hoops do you think they should jump through?

Asked and answered.

Boru