(September 24, 2022 at 6:21 pm)Duty Wrote: According to the (in)famous book by C S Lewis (an English author) "Mere Christianity", pride is the worst. Yet I feel/think/deduce that having pride in one's deeds and behaviour is central and fundamental to living a decent life. No pride = fail, basically.

Lewis, and Dante, and Aquinas, and Aristotle, define "pride" somewhat differently from modern Americans.

For them, the word means over-estimating yourself. It means that you feel you are more deserving or more important in society than you really are. 

This is the "worst" sin only in that it tends to allow us to justify the other sins. So for example if I think that I am more important than you, and I deserve your smartphone more than you do, then I feel justified in stealing your smartphone. Stealing is another sin, but in this case I have justified it to myself through pride. 

This is why Dante describes pride as the first sin that has to be purged at Purgatory. Until the pride is gone, envy, greed, etc., can't be erased. 

Obviously modern people use it differently. We say that it's good to feel proud of your school, or your ethnic group, or whatever. This is just to recognize the good qualities and feel good about them. There's nothing wrong with that. Although my grandmother, well read in the classics, would correct me if I said I was proud of my accomplishments -- she would say "say pleased, not proud." 

(If you start to overestimate these good qualities, however, that would be Lewis's version of pride. So an Aryan who felt that his race was so good that it was better than others could use this to justify bad things.)

And theists pointing out the sins of those they dislike is precisely what happened during the witch trials. They honestly haven't changed since then.

I have always utterly failed to care what Lewis had to say about anything. He gave Belfast religious fanatics a bad name (which takes a bit of doing).


Boru

Is it wrong to take pride in one's appearance monsieur Lewis? :cuckoo cuckoo:

Quote: He also writes about the great sin: pride, which he argues to be the root cause of all evil and rebellion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere_Christianity

(September 25, 2022 at 4:41 am)Duty Wrote: Is it wrong to take pride in one's appearance monsieur Lewis? :cuckoo cuckoo:

Quote: He also writes about the great sin: pride, which he argues to be the root cause of all evil and rebellion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere_Christianity

It is wrong to overestimate, or overvalue, your appearance. If you're happy about how you look, though, there's nothing wrong with that. 

I explained earlier how pride -- in Lewis's definition -- is in fact the root of evil and [unjust] rebellion.

Frankly, having read Mere Christianity and Surprised by Joy, I regard C.S. Lewis as a self-righteous twit and don't give a hoot for what he has to say about anything. 

(September 25, 2022 at 5:58 am)Belacqua Wrote:

(September 25, 2022 at 4:41 am)Duty Wrote: Is it wrong to take pride in one's appearance monsieur Lewis? :cuckoo cuckoo:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere_Christianity

It is wrong to overestimate, or overvalue, your appearance. If you're happy about how you look, though, there's nothing wrong with that. 

I explained earlier how pride -- in Lewis's definition -- is in fact the root of evil and [unjust] rebellion.

Agreed - it's a matter of definitions to a degree, it's just that winning a sense of pride for worthwhile achievements seems fundamental to me, and yet the word is vilified virtually 360 in the culture:

[/url]

Quote:[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride]Pride (superbia), also known as hubris (from Ancient Greek ὕβρις) or futility. It is considered the original and worst of the seven deadly sins on almost every list, the most demonic.[41] It is also thought to be the source of the other capital sins.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

(September 25, 2022 at 8:42 am)Gwaithmir Wrote: Frankly, having read Mere Christianity and Surprised by Joy, I regard C.S. Lewis as a self-righteous twit and don't give a hoot for what he has to say about anything. 

Strikingly, being "self-righteous" and being "prideful" are virtually synonyms in seems - off to Hades with you then Lewis! 

(September 25, 2022 at 8:42 am)Gwaithmir Wrote: Frankly, having read Mere Christianity and Surprised by Joy, I regard C.S. Lewis as a self-righteous twit and don't give a hoot for what he has to say about anything. 

It's extremely sad that there were millions of human beings who spent their entire adult lives wondering if their "sins" were venial versus mortal; still, a few had the common sense to say, "Fuck it", and enjoy life.  Nowadays, true religious devotion is mainly seen in terrorist acts or in Hollywood:






It's a long clip and Milla Jovovich isn't the greatest of actresses (in fact, one of the worst), but, it's historical.  Ironically, the judge in the scene went on to play the role of the judge in the Disney 101 Dalmatians movie.  Likely, the Disney producers saw the above clip before casting him for that role!

Having some pride - also known as having healthy self-esteem.

This thread because...my recent ex has no pride and is drinking herself to death in utterly careless defeatist miserable apathetic slobbery, as she has been since we first met. I thought I could help her. I have failed. Because of C S Lewis? That'd be conveniently simple but as Belacqua highlighted the problem has other veins.