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RE: A simple argument against God
December 4, 2022 at 2:06 pm
(December 4, 2022 at 1:24 pm)Lek Wrote: I'm giving you my thoughts and my reasons for believing in God. You can believe whatever you want. I do have a lot of philosophical curiosity. I already know that I'm here in this body in this universe. I want to know why and if there's more to it. I've said this before. If we stick only to what we can see and touch and rule out any philosophical considerations we trap ourselves in a box. Sane, educated people have believed in and still do believe in God, even though we don't believe in fairies and pink elephants. It's intuitive when one looks at the whole picture.
The concept of God is hardly monolithic. Christians are Trinitarian and Muslims are strict monotheists, and many Hindus are polytheistic.
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RE: A simple argument against God
December 4, 2022 at 2:08 pm
(December 4, 2022 at 1:24 pm)Lek Wrote: I'm giving you my thoughts and my reasons for believing in God. You can believe whatever you want. I do have a lot of philosophical curiosity. I already know that I'm here in this body in this universe. I want to know why and if there's more to it. I've said this before. If we stick only to what we can see and touch and rule out any philosophical considerations we trap ourselves in a box. Sane, educated people have believed in and still do believe in God, even though we don't believe in fairies and pink elephants. It's intuitive when one looks at the whole picture.
If belief in god was intuitive, everyone would believe in the same god in the same way. What I don’t get is why your belief in your god is intuitive, but the beliefs of other people in other gods is not.
Saying you don’t believe in Odin but you do believe in Jehovah is like saying you think the idea of Batman is silly, but you have a close, personal relationship with Spider-man.
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RE: A simple argument against God
December 4, 2022 at 2:57 pm
(December 4, 2022 at 1:41 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: (December 4, 2022 at 1:24 pm)Lek Wrote: I'm giving you my thoughts and my reasons for believing in God. You can believe whatever you want. I do have a lot of philosophical curiosity. I already know that I'm here in this body in this universe. I want to know why and if there's more to it. I've said this before. If we stick only to what we can see and touch and rule out any philosophical considerations we trap ourselves in a box. Sane, educated people have believed in and still do believe in God, even though we don't believe in fairies and pink elephants. It's intuitive when one looks at the whole picture.
My experience says that most people follow the religion of their parents. And many people don't question it. I was raised as a Catholic because my dad was Catholic (as were all his relatives that I know/knew). Indoctrination is a thing and it works in that people at least say they believe XYZ and they go through the motions dictated by their particular flavor of religion. Sleep walking through a religion seems to be pretty common.
I have a good friend who is quite religious. But it doesn't appear faked or forced with her belief and she is not just following a script. Her faith is a part of her and my lack of faith is a part of me. She doesn't try to convert me nor I her.
Yes, most Christians come from Christian families, most Muslims come from Muslim families, very few seem to look at all the thousands of religions before deciding what they believe.
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RE: A simple argument against God
December 5, 2022 at 3:14 am
(December 3, 2022 at 10:48 pm)Lek Wrote: Since there are a zillion definitions of God, can I assume your reasoning applies to any existence outside of the natural realm?
No point in looking at gods which even you agree don't exist. Outside the "natural realm" is outside of reality.
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RE: A simple argument against God
December 5, 2022 at 3:16 am
(December 4, 2022 at 3:05 am)snowtracks Wrote: Philosophical statement - If anything now exists, then something must be eternal
or something not eternal came out of nothing.
And how does this trivially true statement help you prove that the voices in your head are god?
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RE: A simple argument against God
December 5, 2022 at 12:06 pm
(December 5, 2022 at 3:16 am)GUBU Wrote: (December 4, 2022 at 3:05 am)snowtracks Wrote: Philosophical statement - If anything now exists, then something must be eternal
or something not eternal came out of nothing.
And how does this trivially true statement help you prove that the voices in your head are god? I don't have any voices "in my head".
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RE: A simple argument against God
December 5, 2022 at 12:27 pm
(This post was last modified: December 5, 2022 at 12:30 pm by Simon Moon.)
(December 4, 2022 at 3:05 am)snowtracks Wrote: Philosophical statement - If anything now exists, then something must be eternal
or something not eternal came out of nothing.
Yes.
The eternal thing is existence. Existence has always existed, it could not have been any other way.
And no, something 'not eternal' did not come out of nothing, it came out of existence.
Still no need for a god.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: A simple argument against God
December 5, 2022 at 3:57 pm
I don't think this can be true if everything is only a part of the material universe. But that's what you believe and I can't prove you wrong.
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RE: A simple argument against God
December 5, 2022 at 9:03 pm
(This post was last modified: December 5, 2022 at 9:06 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Your "only", and not anyone else's beliefs, appear to be doing the heavy lifting. You think there needs to be something more than only existence?
Or, let's run with it? I agree. Especially if this material universe only came from a god. I bet there's a whole bunch of shit it couldn't do if it were fairy powered.
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RE: A simple argument against God
December 5, 2022 at 11:33 pm
(December 5, 2022 at 12:27 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (December 4, 2022 at 3:05 am)snowtracks Wrote: Philosophical statement - If anything now exists, then something must be eternal
or something not eternal came out of nothing.
Yes.
The eternal thing is existence. Existence has always existed, it could not have been any other way.
And no, something 'not eternal' did not come out of nothing, it came out of existence.
Still no need for a god. 'existence (noun) is a thing' which makes it an 'effect', not a cause. Principle of Causality, cause precedes effect.
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
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