(April 22, 2010 at 12:47 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Generally, I don't join religious forums for two reasons.

1- Their unrelenting dickheadedness is intolerable. Stupid people give me gas and I'd be farting constantly on a xtian board. Also, I saw one where instead of "kudos" they were giving each other "blessings." It was fucking nauseating.

2- I am quite intolerant of religious assholes who show up here, dump a load of jesus shit on our carpet and then stand there and scream that it doesn't smell. Were I to do the same thing to them I would lose the moral high ground when they show up here acting like assholes.

I can understand why you'd be reluctant to join religious forums. What I find difficult to deal with is that, when I'm on the religion forums, I'm supposed to show "respect" for the beliefs of these idiots. So when some dumbass tells me that the Grand Canyon proves the story of Noah's Ark.... I'm supposed to "respect" this belief. Ugh. What I like about this forum is that if someone tells me man and dinosaurs lived together, I can reply by saying such a belief is absolutely retarded. If I did that on the religion forums I would be immediately banned.

Yes because fucking jesus may love you but they hate your ass.

(April 22, 2010 at 4:12 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Yes because fucking jesus may love you but they hate your ass.

Of course they do,because they're ignorant, stupid and fearful.

Far less personally stressful (and more insulting) to simply be indifferent. EG I have actually said to such people "I honestly could not not care less if you were to be run over by a passing tank,or spontaneously ignite in the middle of the local mall".

OK,I lie: I AM a little squeamish ,so would prefer such happy accidents not occur in my presence.

And no,I am not joking.

(March 31, 2010 at 12:42 pm)Minimalist Wrote: It's even worse than that, Thor.

Pontius Pilate served as prefect of Judaea for 10 years from 26 - 36. As he was made a central character in the story we thus have a terminus ad quem of 36 but since Passover is always in the Spring, we can further refine the date to the end of March, 36 as the latest possible date. The problem comes in on the other end.

All 3 synoptic gospels indicate that 'jesus' ministry did not begin until John the Baptist was killed. Matthew and Luke equate the arrest and subsequent execution to the marriage of Herod Antipas to Herodias, either the widow or divorced wife of his brother, Phillip. This gives us our second historical marker. This is an actual event, mentioned by Josephus.

Antipas was married to the daughter of King Aretas of Nabatea and he duly moved to divorce her in order to marry Herodias. However, independent kings within the Roman empire were not all that independent and it was necessary for him to travel to Rome and obtain the consent of Tiberius for a royal wedding. Josephus recounts that he did this which would have taken a good six months round trip. Upon his return the divorce caused Aretas to attack Antipas' kingdom. Attacking a Roman ally was never a good idea and Tiberius directed the governor of Syria, Lucius Vitellius, to deal with Aretas. The problem is that Vitellius did not begin his governorship until 35, he was not even eligible until he was elected consul in 34 and finished his term for such an important military command as Augustus and Tiberius had things set up.

So the political situation goes to shit in 35. It doesn't make sense for John the Baptist to have been denouncing a marriage which had not yet taken place. ( It also doesn't make much sense for John the Baptist, who was a Judaean and therefore a subject of Pilate to have been all that concerned about what Antipas was doing in Galilee in the first place. But this is just another example of the gospel writers having forgotten that the country was divided upon the death of Herod the Great!). Josephus mentions Antipas having John killed but does not specifically relate it to the marriage. It was Vitellius, btw, who removed Pilate as prefect ( an act which probably had more to do with Roman politics than anything else) and replaced him with another officer. Vitellius also removed Caiaphas as high priest around this time.

So we have Antipas divorcing Aretas' daughter in 35, touching off a small war. If the gospel accounts are to be credited the marriage that they claim got John arrested for denouncing must have happened in 35 also. Jesus' ministry begins upon John's arrest and MUST have ended by March, 36. Doesn't leave a lot of time. Certainly not enough for the gospel of John's 3 year ministry, does it?

You fucking rule Min, The entire story is a fabrication.

(April 23, 2010 at 2:52 am)theVOID Wrote: You fucking rule Min, The entire story is a fabrication.

Of course it's a fabrication! Have you ever compared the story of "Jesus" with the story of the ancient Persian deity Mithra? They are eerily similar. http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen048.html

They were both born on December 25.

They both had 12 companions.

The both performed miracles.

They were both buried in a tomb and rose again after three days.

But this is all just a coincidence, right?

(April 23, 2010 at 2:25 am)padraic Wrote:

(April 22, 2010 at 4:12 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Yes because fucking jesus may love you but they hate your ass.

Of course they do,because they're ignorant, stupid and fearful.

Far less personally stressful (and more insulting) to simply be indifferent. EG I have actually said to such people "I honestly could not not care less if you were to be run over by a passing tank,or spontaneously ignite in the middle of the local mall".

OK,I lie: I AM a little squeamish ,so would prefer such happy accidents not occur in my presence.

And no,I am not joking.

Whenever a busload of religious asswipes goes into a ravine I always take it as a sign that prayer is fucking worthless.

But then, I know that I'm a prick!

---

(April 23, 2010 at 9:29 am)Thor Wrote:

(April 23, 2010 at 2:52 am)theVOID Wrote: You fucking rule Min, The entire story is a fabrication.

Of course it's a fabrication! Have you ever compared the story of "Jesus" with the story of the ancient Persian deity Mithra? They are eerily similar. http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen048.html

They were both born on December 25.

They both had 12 companions.

The both performed miracles.

They were both buried in a tomb and rose again after three days.

But this is all just a coincidence, right?

Uh-huh.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/Mithraism.html

Quote:Eclipsed as it was in later centuries by the faith of Christ, Mithraism – or rather, its Romanised form Sol Invictus – was the first ‘universal religion’ of the Greco-Roman world.

Mithraism anticipated Christianity in all major respects bar one, and enjoyed a ‘reign’ of at least five centuries. It peaked around the year 300 AD when it became the official religion of the empire. At that time, in every town and city, in every military garrison and outpost from Syria to the Scottish frontier, was to be found a Mithraeum and officiating priests of the cult.

Mithraism was the ‘religion of choice’ of fishermen, merchants, and in particular, the military who adopted Mithras rather like latter-day soldiers would adopt St. Michael or St. George – Mithras slew bulls, St George slew dragons! Mithraism waged – and lost – a two-hundred year battle with the upstart religion of Christ, into which much of its ritual, and many of its practitioners, were subsumed.

Fatally, Mithraism had excluded women entirely, causing well-heeled Roman matrons with a pious frame of mind to explore first Judaism, and then Christianity. Also, unlike Christianity, it made no special overtures towards the uneducated, downtrodden and marginal elements of society. It was a religion chosen by emperors, not slaves.

So this is why 'christianity' is known as the Slave Religion with Islam perfecting it to a fine art??

(March 31, 2010 at 5:39 pm)Minimalist Wrote: This excerpt is from Josephus, The Jewish War, Book VI, Chapter 5.3.........
........uttering the very same presages he gave up the ghost.

Minimalist - what a marvellous extract! Is it verbatim or have you edited it? I had always thought that Josephus never mentioned Jesus but that seems to be a root of the myth doesn't it.

I don't have Josephus' works to refer to but a bit of quick research on his father's name, 'Ananus', found this interesting text as well.

Quote: Josephus allegedly describes the death of James as follows:

Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity [to exercise his authority]. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done; they also sent to the king [Agrippa], desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey from Alexandria, and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to assemble a sanhedrim without his consent. Whereupon Albinus complied with what they said, and wrote in anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would bring him to punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, and made Jesus, the son of Damneus, high priest.

Get the story tellers to repeat and hone this lot for a few decades, conflate it with the Mithras tales and you have the start of Christianity! Could it really be that simple?

Ooh...blast from the past.

You can find the complete works of Flavius Josephus here:

http://www.biblestudytools.com/history/f...-josephus/

There are in excess of 20 "jesuses" in Josephus' writings which is in keeping with the idea that it was an exceedingly common name in first century Judaea.

Deist Paladin will probably weigh in on the secondary reference you mention above from Book XX of Antiquities of the Jews. Unlike the Testimonium Flavianum which is a clear forgery - xtian bullshit artists aside - this secondary reference might not be a blatant forgery, just a little wishful thinking by xtian scribes.

To Josephus, a pharisee and member of a priestly family, the phrase christos was merely Greek for "the anointed one." In his time, such a reference would have applied to the kings and high priests who were, in fact, anointed with a special oil upon taking office. In the passage you quoted virtually everyone mentioned ( except the two Roman procurators ) had been a "christos" at one time or another. Keeping in mind that ancient Greek was written without punctuation, capitals or even spaces between words it is entirely possible that some later xtian scribe went through the passage saw the word "christos" and promptly wet his pants in joy. They then tampered with the text to make the "meaning" more plain for the dolts who believed in such abject horseshit as xtianity.

Believers insist that Jesus was a real person who performed real miracles. I say he's a myth.

Actually - it is easy to prove that the christ is a myth. He cannot fulfill all the contradicting claims made in the bible for him to begin with

FOR example - according to the christian religion - a god cannot die - is eternal - no beginning and no end.

THe christ is claimed to have been totally human

Yet - he is claimed to have performed feats that are beyond the definition of a human - including raising a rotting corpse from the grave - so the christ myth was NOT a human - but a god - and therefore could not die on a cross.

However - go back to the beginning of the MYTH. At the time period of the fairy tales - people thought that a man supplied a "seed" that grew into a human inside the mother - taking only nourishment - but not actually having anything else in common with the mother. This is obviously the way the bible was written to understand. Today - we know otherwise - and the idea of the christ is genetically impossible. A god and a human would have to be two different species - and when two different species procreate - they do not produce one or the other beings - they produce an intermediate being - like a mule - and in this case - since NO human Y chromosome is involved - it would have to be a female as well.

SO - the christ was born just as Harry Potter was - in the minds of story tellers who believed ancient ideas were true - and are exposed by reality.