(March 14, 2023 at 9:25 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Numbers in the OT were more symbolic than quantitatives. Perhaps God trusted that post-modern interpretors could see the difference.

"Children need encouragement. If a kid gets an answer right, tell him it was a lucky guess. That way he develops a good, lucky feeling."

— Jack Handey

The numbers mean whatever you want them to mean, fairy stories are like that.

(March 15, 2023 at 8:46 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: The numbers mean whatever you want them to mean, fairy stories are like that.

Bingo lolly. There’s a reason why there are three billy goats Gruff, seven dwarfs, twelve Labours of Hercules, etc. 

Numbers is magic, they is.

Boru

I'm going with menstrual cycle count. Dies around 27 to 28 solar years.

(March 15, 2023 at 8:46 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: The numbers mean whatever you want them to mean, fairy stories are like that.

Are you trying to say that we are dealing with mythology and numerology, and not historical reality?

Solved!

Clearly 802 years means Lunar-years, where 12 lunar cycles is the Lunar-year, while 777 is number of Solar-years. (777 * 365.24 / (29.5 * 12) ~ 802)

The writers were clearly astronomers, and put apparent contradictions like this in the text just to trip up the unfaithful

Checkmate, atheists! 

(March 15, 2023 at 5:13 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: Solved!

Clearly 802 years means Lunar-years, where 12 lunar cycles is the Lunar-year, while 777 is number of Solar-years. (777 * 365.24 / (29.5 * 12) ~ 802)

The writers were clearly astronomers, and put apparent contradictions like this in the text just to trip up the unfaithful

Checkmate, atheists! 

Except of course a consistent 12 lunar synodic months was not the lunar years used by the hebrews.     A Hebrew Lunar year has variable number of month so it is periodically brought back into rough alignment with the solar year.     So the length of 777 solar years would have very close to the length 777 Hebrew lunar years,  to be within about 30 days to be exact.     The 25 year discrepancy between 777 and 803 is certainly far outside error bounds, except may be to god whose perfection, as neo informs us, relies on human pretending his errors are not errors.

From the Book of Job: "Who has put wisdom in the innermost being, Or given understanding to the mind? Who can count the clouds by wisdom, And pour out the water jars of the heavens."

So how do you recommend approaching such a text? Well, IMNSHO starting with the assumption that ancient peoples believed in literal jars in the sky pouring water from above would be a remarkably ignorant and arrogant hueristic.

(March 15, 2023 at 11:14 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(March 15, 2023 at 8:46 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: The numbers mean whatever you want them to mean, fairy stories are like that.

Bingo lolly. There’s a reason why there are three billy goats Gruff, seven dwarfs, twelve Labours of Hercules, etc. 

Numbers is magic, they is.

Boru

12 h in a day and 12 h at night.
If the numbers 3, 7, 40 are also magical, why didn’t they choose to have 3 h for day and 3 h at night? Why did they go with 12? I have no idea.

Look at analog clocks. What do you notice? I notice that all of them follow a pattern. The number 12 is at the top. The Sun is suppose to reach its highest point in the sky at 12 PM.
Is that why 12 is at the top of analog clocks?

Why do the clock hands spin in that direction? Does it have a significance?
If we place an analog clock on the ground, face up, is the hour hand suppose to follow the movement of the Sun?
Does it have a religious significance?
Did ancient people dance around a fire clockwise?
Did the priests walk around the altar of sacrifice clockwise?

Why 60 min in an hour? Why 60 sec in 1 min?

(March 15, 2023 at 9:51 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: From the Book of Job: "Who has put wisdom in the innermost being, Or given understanding to the mind? Who can count the clouds by wisdom, And pour out the water jars of the heavens."

So how do you recommend approaching such a text? Well,  IMNSHO starting with the assumption that ancient peoples believed in literal jars in the sky pouring water from above would be a remarkably ignorant and arrogant hueristic.

Why can’t the jewish god have jars of water or windows in a firmament? Are you saying that the jewish god does the raining using an alternative means or maybe he doesn’t do anything at all?

In the case of wisdom, wisdom is not a material substance therefore they did not write that “god takes the wisdom out of his wisdom jar and poor it into a mind”.

I don’t know what count the clouds by wisdom means. Clouds don’t have an exact boundary but of course, you can set up some arbitrary rule and count them.
I suppose they could have written that he has bottles of wisdom but they did not go into that direction.

For water, it is normal for humans to go into the water in a jar direction. That is how primitive humans handled water. They did not write about pools of water being suspended using force fields because they didn’t have the imagination to go in that direction.
Primitive humans were not even aware that water can become a gas. They didn’t even know that clouds were small particles of ice.

What they were sure of was that their god is in space and he controls the rain.
Primitive humans were not aware of the hydrological cycle so even something as basic as that was said to be done by their god.

Job 38:35 KING JAMES VERSION
Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are? {38:36} Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart? {38:37} Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,

^^^^^Also, I suppose that they are claiming that their god does lightning.