(March 23, 2023 at 11:43 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: It’s been my experience that gender fluid people tend to not just be into one gender.

...but if a person is gender fluid but only finds women sexually attractive then they would be switching their orientation back and forth, right?  I think I actually know someone like that.

If they are, they’re still somewhere on the LGBTQ continuum.

(March 23, 2023 at 11:49 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: If they are, they’re still somewhere on the LGBTQ continuum.

Thanks for entertaining my questions.  Very interesting discussion.  

(March 23, 2023 at 6:20 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote:

(March 23, 2023 at 10:53 am)arewethereyet Wrote: I am certain that someone who is homosexual can indeed 'act' straight.  Live a straight lifestyle, as it were.  That doesn't mean anything other than behavior has changed.

Come on outta that closet Winter.

Does this mean that someone who is really straight can "act" gay or believe they are gay for years only to realize that they have really been straight their whole life?

I've known a number of people who seemed to be fully one way and then, at some point, started swinging the other way. 

(I knew a guy who was stationed in the Philippines and spent every spare minute either playing with the bar girls who serviced the military base or recovering from the infections they gave him. And then he got home and discovered Grindr and took up a new life meeting guys at his local truck stop. Or a good friend of mine who spent his teens and early twenties as a gay star-fucker, managing to get into bed with just about every gay poet or novelist who ever published a book. But he got too old to have that kind of gay-nymphet sex appeal so he settled down with a nice woman and lived happily ever after. And several other examples.)

I guess I question the concept that people are "really" one way even though they are voluntarily and happily living another way. If they're having to force themselves to be straight because they think it's bad to be gay, then, yeah, they aren't "really" straight. But if they truly want to do one thing in their twenties, and then change things up when they're middle-aged, then I don't think there's been any self-deception going on. 

Maybe if we HAD TO label them we'd say they were bi. Or "serially bi," in the way some people are "serially monogamous." But I think we might be getting to the point where insisting on a predefined category for each and every person's sexuality may be too limiting. 

So I do think it's possible for one's orientation to change. Though this has to come from within, and it's still a very bad thing to try to force someone to change who doesn't want to.

(March 24, 2023 at 12:58 am)Belacqua Wrote:

(March 23, 2023 at 6:20 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Does this mean that someone who is really straight can "act" gay or believe they are gay for years only to realize that they have really been straight their whole life?

I've known a number of people who seemed to be fully one way and then, at some point, started swinging the other way. 

(I knew a guy who was stationed in the Philippines and spent every spare minute either playing with the bar girls who serviced the military base or recovering from the infections they gave him. And then he got home and discovered Grindr and took up a new life meeting guys at his local truck stop. Or a good friend of mine who spent his teens and early twenties as a gay star-fucker, managing to get into bed with just about every gay poet or novelist who ever published a book. But he got too old to have that kind of gay-nymphet sex appeal so he settled down with a nice woman and lived happily ever after. And several other examples.)

I guess I question the concept that people are "really" one way even though they are voluntarily and happily living another way. If they're having to force themselves to be straight because they think it's bad to be gay, then, yeah, they aren't "really" straight. But if they truly want to do one thing in their twenties, and then change things up when they're middle-aged, then I don't think there's been any self-deception going on. 

Maybe if we HAD TO label them we'd say they were bi. Or "serially bi," in the way some people are "serially monogamous." But I think we might be getting to the point where insisting on a predefined category for each and every person's sexuality may be too limiting. 

So I do think it's possible for one's orientation to change. Though this has to come from within, and it's still a very bad thing to try to force someone to change who doesn't want to.

Horse shit.  Matthew Shepard was beaten, tortured, and left to die, which he did six days later from the injuries he sustained.
If only he tried just a little harder to get that change from within, eh?

(March 24, 2023 at 1:02 am)Nay_Sayer Wrote: Horse shit.  Matthew Shepard was beaten, tortured, and left to die, which he did six days later from the injuries he sustained.
If only he tried just a little harder to get that change from within, eh?

How is Matthew Shephard at all relevant to his post?

(March 24, 2023 at 1:02 am)Nay_Sayer Wrote:

(March 24, 2023 at 12:58 am)Belacqua Wrote: I've known a number of people who seemed to be fully one way and then, at some point, started swinging the other way. 

(I knew a guy who was stationed in the Philippines and spent every spare minute either playing with the bar girls who serviced the military base or recovering from the infections they gave him. And then he got home and discovered Grindr and took up a new life meeting guys at his local truck stop. Or a good friend of mine who spent his teens and early twenties as a gay star-fucker, managing to get into bed with just about every gay poet or novelist who ever published a book. But he got too old to have that kind of gay-nymphet sex appeal so he settled down with a nice woman and lived happily ever after. And several other examples.)

I guess I question the concept that people are "really" one way even though they are voluntarily and happily living another way. If they're having to force themselves to be straight because they think it's bad to be gay, then, yeah, they aren't "really" straight. But if they truly want to do one thing in their twenties, and then change things up when they're middle-aged, then I don't think there's been any self-deception going on. 

Maybe if we HAD TO label them we'd say they were bi. Or "serially bi," in the way some people are "serially monogamous." But I think we might be getting to the point where insisting on a predefined category for each and every person's sexuality may be too limiting. 

So I do think it's possible for one's orientation to change. Though this has to come from within, and it's still a very bad thing to try to force someone to change who doesn't want to.

Horse shit.  Matthew Shepard was beaten, tortured, and left to die, which he did six days later from the injuries he sustained.
If only he tried just a little harder to get that change from within, eh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRWK5I49jOs

(March 24, 2023 at 1:47 am)Statler Waldorf Wrote:

(March 24, 2023 at 1:02 am)Nay_Sayer Wrote: Horse shit.  Matthew Shepard was beaten, tortured, and left to die, which he did six days later from the injuries he sustained.
If only he tried just a little harder to get that change from within, eh?

How is Matthew Shephard at all relevant to his post?

The terms "They can change if they really want to'.  Do you think he wanted want happened to him? I could list countless more examples of people who undoubtedly wished they could change.  People who have come out have lost jobs, friends, family, thrown out of their homes, beaten, toured, and killed.

He is one such example.

(March 24, 2023 at 1:47 am)Statler Waldorf Wrote:

(March 24, 2023 at 1:02 am)Nay_Sayer Wrote: Horse shit.  Matthew Shepard was beaten, tortured, and left to die, which he did six days later from the injuries he sustained.
If only he tried just a little harder to get that change from within, eh?

How is Matthew Shephard at all relevant to his post?

I think that Nay Sayer may be a little too eager to say "Nay." 

I never said, and do not believe, that a person can change orientation at will. You can't just throw a switch. Nor would I ever suggest that Matthew Shepherd or anyone else ought to have changed, for his own good. 

I only said that people sometimes do change their behavior. How this comes about I don't know, but -- again -- I don't think it's something that a person can just will when it's convenient. If you start to want different things, then you find different ways to enjoy yourself. And I think that's fine.

(March 24, 2023 at 2:40 am)Nay_Sayer Wrote: "They can change if they really want to'.

I never said this.

It's against forum rules to put quotation marks around something that isn't an accurate quote.