(May 7, 2023 at 11:28 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(May 7, 2023 at 10:41 am)purplepurpose Wrote: Gideon Rose from Foreign Affairs on The Colbert Report in 2014, bragging about the US "stealing Russia's girlfriend" Ukraine, and admitting it could provoke Putin.


https://www.reddit.com/r/LibertarianPart...e_colbert/ (LINK TO A VIDEO).

I know it's chic to blame America for everything, but who was it who gave the order to invade? How did seizing Crimea and attacking eastern Ukraine diminish America's influence in Kyiv or increase Russian security, which is the necessary implication of your point here?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-u...1G20140207

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A conversation between a State Department official and the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine that was posted on YouTube revealed an embarrassing exchange on U.S. strategy for a political transition in that country, including a crude American swipe at the European Union.

Nuland is heard telling U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt that she doesn’t think Vitaly Klitschko, the boxer-turned-politician who is a main opposition leader, should be in a new government.

“So I don’t think Klitsch (Klitschko) should go into the government,” she said in the recording, which appeared to describe events that occurred in late January. “I don’t think it’s necessary. I don’t think it’s a good idea.”

Nuland referred to getting the United Nations involved in a political solution in Kiev.

“So that would be great, I think, to help glue this thing and have the U.N. help glue it and you know ... fuck the EU,” she said in the recording, which was accompanied by still pictures of people mentioned in the call.

Pyatt responded: “Exactly. And I think we’ve got to do something to make it stick together because you can be pretty sure that if it does start to gain altitude, the Russians will be working behind the scenes to try to torpedo it.”

Protests began when Yanukovich spurned an EU trade agreement last year in pursuit of closer ties with Russia. Protesters have since taken over public buildings and staged mass rallies, sometimes clashing violently with police, in the capital Kiev and other cities.

“I think (Yatseniuk) is the guy who’s got the economic experience, the governing experience. What he needs is (Klitschko) and (Tyahnybok) on the outside. He needs to be talking to them four times a week,” Nuland said in the recording.

Pyatt suggested Nuland contact Klitschko personally to play to his “top dog” sensibilities.

“I think you reaching out directly to him helps with the personality management among the three and it gives you also a chance to move fast on all this stuff and put us behind it before they all sit down and he explains why he doesn’t like it,” he said.


In 2014 USA already was deciding who will govern Ukraine.

(May 7, 2023 at 9:32 am)purplepurpose Wrote:

(May 7, 2023 at 9:21 am)Helios Wrote: Well there are truths to these quotes Ukraine is a bit unique because I have pointed out there is nothing on a broad geopolitical scale America gains from Ukraine they don't already have and  if the goal is merely to screw over Russia they already can do that from territories they already have influence over.

USA use motivated ukranians to bleed russians. Bleed russians good.

I think Russia did that by invading them.

Quote:In 2014 USA already was deciding who will govern Ukraine.

I'm sorry that's a huge stretch from these communications

(May 7, 2023 at 1:04 pm)Helios Wrote:

Quote:In 2014 USA already was deciding who will govern Ukraine.

I'm sorry that's a huge stretch from these communications

How would you describe such strong involvment in a political process of a foreign nation?

(May 7, 2023 at 1:35 pm)purplepurpose Wrote:

(May 7, 2023 at 1:04 pm)Helios Wrote: I'm sorry that's a huge stretch from these communications

How would you describe such strong involvment in a political process of a foreign nation?

Dont you think invasion and annexation is the strongest possible involvment in the political process of a foreign nation?

Quote:How would you describe such strong involvment in a political process of a foreign nation?

Simply involvement

(May 7, 2023 at 1:45 pm)Helios Wrote:

Quote:How would you describe such strong involvment in a political process of a foreign nation?

Simply involvement

Who gave USA rights to coordinate election process of foreign nation?

Quote:Who gave USA rights to coordinate election process of foreign nation?

I'm not sure that's what happened

(May 7, 2023 at 2:02 pm)Helios Wrote:

Quote:Who gave USA rights to coordinate election process of foreign nation?

I'm not sure that's what happened

Who gave USA rights to get simply involved in to election process of foreign nation? EDIT: Was the nuland and her colleagues actions were legal in your opinion?

Quote:Who gave USA rights to get simply involved in to election process of foreign nation?

Who needs to give said right? And I'm hard-pressed to find a law that says they aren't allowed to be involved at all.