(May 8, 2023 at 4:10 pm)Helios Wrote: We have already been over this. That study is crap...

If you reject the Gary Kleck's 1995 study about defensive gun use as "crap", then, to be consistent, you probably have to reject the entire comparative linguistics as "crap".

Quote:If you reject the Gary Kleck's 1995 study about defensive gun use as "crap", then, to be consistent, you probably have to reject the entire comparative linguistics as "crap".

We have already been over this. This study is crap and you were already schooled on using it as evidence. 

If you say we have to reject linguistics...then okay, but...back to diagnosing the problem of mass shootings, or what?

I'll just leave this here 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/united...shootings/

https://www.americanprogress.org/article...shootings/

(May 8, 2023 at 3:48 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:

(May 8, 2023 at 2:40 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote: A madman with a gun, obviously. Now, how they get their gun is another question. In the US, as far as I know, basically around 50% of mass shooters get their guns legally and the other 50% get them illegally. Now, how it is in Macedonia and Norway, I don't know.

Andrija Drežnjak, the shooter of the mass shooting in Đakovo in 2019, allegedly bought his gun on the black market. I have no idea whether guns on the black market here in Croatia are manufactured legally or illegally.

Kosta Kečmanović allegedly stole the gun from his father, who got his gun legally.

(May 8, 2023 at 2:51 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote: You claimed that people with a diagnozed mental illness should not be allowed to have guns because they are significantly more likely to commit a mass shooting, right? Well, the evidence does not support that.

These posts were right on top of each other.  If the evidence does not support the madman with a gun theory, that can't be what they have in common.   It's not arcane knowledge or a well hidden state secret.  The US, Norway, and Macedonia all register mass shootings as a consequence of ethno-centric domestic terrorism.

I think mass shooters have an undiagnosed mental illness. If willingness to kill strangers is not a sign of mental illness, what is? But it doesn't follow that a diagnosed mental illness is a good predictor of being a mass shooter and that people with a diagnosed mental illness should not be allowed to have guns. Also, I think making it illegal for people with mental illness to own a gun will make people owning a gun be afraid of visiting a psychiatrist.

And that is a very stupid take 

(May 8, 2023 at 4:27 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote: I think mass shooters have an undiagnosed mental illness. If willingness to kill strangers is not a sign of mental illness, what is? But it doesn't follow that a diagnosed mental illness is a good predictor of being a mass shooter and that people with a diagnosed mental illness should not be allowed to have guns. Also, I think making it illegal for people with mental illness to own a gun will make people owning a gun be afraid of visiting a psychiatrist.

There could be an argument to made that psychologists should not have reporting requirements for anything, allowing cannibals, mass murders, rapists etc. to get the help they need without being reported to some "list" or to authorities.

But that ship has sailed, for good or bad.  We have decided that a psychologist isn't a priest, and has more responsibility to society than to their patients.

That being said, not all psychological issues make a person dangerous.  I doubt requiring psychologists to put people on "should not own a gun" lists are going to help any but the most egregious cases. 

The best solution?  Don't hand out military grade weapons like candy, and have a warped gun culture surrounding them.  Guns are a tool.  They require safety training and a culture of respect for what the weapon can do.  Guns aren't a symbol of manhood, right-wing power, a redress for perceived grievance, or something that should be needed because you think the "other" is out to get you.

(May 8, 2023 at 4:27 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote:

(May 8, 2023 at 3:48 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: These posts were right on top of each other.  If the evidence does not support the madman with a gun theory, that can't be what they have in common.   It's not arcane knowledge or a well hidden state secret.  The US, Norway, and Macedonia all register mass shootings as a consequence of ethno-centric domestic terrorism.

I think mass shooters have an undiagnosed mental illness. If willingness to kill strangers is not a sign of mental illness, what is? But it doesn't follow that a diagnosed mental illness is a good predictor of being a mass shooter and that people with a diagnosed mental illness should not be allowed to have guns. Also, I think making it illegal for people with mental illness to own a gun will make people owning a gun be afraid of visiting a psychiatrist.

Ok, if mass shooters have an undiagnosed mental illness, who is more likely to commit a mass shooting; a mentally ill person with a gun or a mentally ill person without a gun?

You don’t realize it, but you’ve just made a stunningly good argument for keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill.

Boru

(May 8, 2023 at 4:50 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(May 8, 2023 at 4:27 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote: I think mass shooters have an undiagnosed mental illness. If willingness to kill strangers is not a sign of mental illness, what is? But it doesn't follow that a diagnosed mental illness is a good predictor of being a mass shooter and that people with a diagnosed mental illness should not be allowed to have guns. Also, I think making it illegal for people with mental illness to own a gun will make people owning a gun be afraid of visiting a psychiatrist.

Ok, if mass shooters have an undiagnosed mental illness, who is more likely to commit a mass shooting; a mentally ill person with a gun or a mentally ill person without a gun?

You don’t realize it, but you’ve just made a stunningly good argument for keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill.

Boru

So far he's only made arguments that disfavor his position.

(May 8, 2023 at 2:59 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(May 8, 2023 at 2:51 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote: You claimed that people with a diagnozed mental illness should not be allowed to have guns because they are significantly more likely to commit a mass shooting, right? Well, the evidence does not support that.

So, mass shootings are more likely to be done by people with no aberrant mental processes? This means that Safir Ahamdi Musthaveanibble who shoots up a dozen Israeli schoolchildren because he believes that will create a Palestinian homeland is a perfectly sane, rational person.

Think it through, whydoancha?

Boru

What exactly are you using as a definition of mental illness?