So, Russia & China were both absent from the G20 summit in India:

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/07...0-00114544



I want to state something, but I'm afraid of getting band if I ever said it, so let the days reveal the secret alliance.
The flirting between the two super Nuclear powers is so obvious; to be honest the G20 is missing a lot without the presidents of ...Russia -cough cough- and China...-Cough-.

Are we seeing a new war unfolding between China and India?

(September 9, 2023 at 2:52 pm)WinterHold Wrote: So, Russia & China were both absent from the G20 summit in India:

That's okay, we've added the African Union in their place.  So, adios motherfuckers.

(September 9, 2023 at 2:52 pm)WinterHold Wrote: So, Russia & China were both absent from the G20 summit in India:

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/07...0-00114544



I want to state something, but I'm afraid of getting band if I ever said it, so let the days reveal the secret alliance.
The flirting between the two super Nuclear powers is so obvious; to be honest the G20 is missing a lot without the presidents of ...Russia -cough cough- and China...-Cough-.

Are we seeing a new war unfolding between China and India?

(Bold mine)

No.

Boru

it is not like either China or Russia has withdrawn from the G20, nor that they lack representation during this meeting.   also, G20 is not influential or significant enough such that it will be very problematic for leaders to miss it.  it’s mostly a gladhanding photo op, Ed to provide some minor opportunity for bilateral negotiations.  And leaders of G20 missing the G20 meeting happen more often than not.   G20 meeting with full attendance is the exception.  

Putin misses G20 for the obvious reason that one does not expect to negotiate fruitfully when the other side has an arrest warrant out for you.

Xi misses G20 for the simple reason he is an arrogant ass and the only reason he would have had for coming is to be able to take home the laurels of successful negotiation with the leader of only power he thinks is his equal, and when the prospects of breakthrough negotiation with Biden isn’t good he sees no point in coming.

(September 9, 2023 at 2:52 pm)WinterHold Wrote: So, Russia & China were both absent from the G20 summit in India:

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/07...0-00114544



I want to state something, but I'm afraid of getting band if I ever said it, so let the days reveal the secret alliance.
The flirting between the two super Nuclear powers is so obvious; to be honest the G20 is missing a lot without the presidents of ...Russia -cough cough- and China...-Cough-.

Are we seeing a new war unfolding between China and India?

Basicly Russia cementing its position as abject vassal of China.

(September 9, 2023 at 7:46 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: it is not like either China or Russia has withdrawn from the G20, nor that they lack representation during this meeting.   also, G20 is not influential or significant enough such that it will be very problematic for leaders to miss it.  it’s mostly a gladhanding photo op, Ed to provide some minor opportunity for bilateral negotiations.  And leaders of G20 missing the G20 meeting happen more often than not.   G20 meeting with full attendance is the exception.  

Putin misses G20 for the obvious reason that one does not expect to negotiate fruitfully when the other side has an arrest warrant out for you.

Xi misses G20 for the simple reason he is an arrogant ass and the only reason he would have had for coming is to be able to take home the laurels of successful negotiation with the leader of only power he thinks is his equal, and when the prospects of breakthrough negotiation with Biden isn’t good he sees no point in coming.

Putin's reason for missing the summit can be understood, but XI's reason raises lots of question marks, until a very probable cause is in the news:


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/s...-and-india

Quote:Joe Biden describes ambitious rail and sea plan to counter China’s Belt and Road project as a ‘really big deal’

Quote:G20: EU and US back trade corridor linking Europe, Middle East and India

No wonder Xi dodged the slap of attending this American-Western demolition for the Chinese "New Silk Road".
Biden is declaring a new World War; now we have 2 sides:

1-China & Russia on one end with their own economical road
2-America and its allies on the other end with their own economical road.

(September 11, 2023 at 12:11 am)WinterHold Wrote: 2-America and its allies on the other end with their own economical road.

Well, what do we know about this new economical road?

So far, the US has shown a map and made a speech.

There is no budget, no announcement of who's paying, no timeline. 

There's also the question of why the route as currently planned would be a benefit. It would require loading goods onto a ship in Mumbai, unloading at Dubai and loading everything onto trains, unloading at Haifa and loading everything onto ships again, and then unloading at Piraeus and putting things onto trains again. Whereas the route basically follows what a single ship could do if it went through the Suez Canal. 

Then there's the problem that the ports at Piraeus and Haifa are already owned and operated by China. 

Then there's the problem that people in Asia tend to remember America's great infrastructure announcements about rebuilding Afghanistan, none of which worked. 

Then there's the knowledge that US infrastructure at home is crumbling, especially compared to China. The high speed rail system that was announced in California 15 years ago has spent billions of dollars, so far has no useable track, and is currently scheduled to finish its first leg of 190 miles in 2030. Do you know how much high speed rail China has built in that time? 

Can you tell us anything that Biden's "Build Back Better" project has accomplished? 

Beware of announcements. Look at what has been accomplished.

China’s belt and road is only secondarily a power play to bind other countries to Chinese finance.    The primary reason for belt and road is to find markets to mop up the loose credit and absorb the vast industrial overcapacity that China had built up as a result of the extremely loose monetary policy that the communist government had adopted to shelter the Chinese manufacturing sector from the effects of the 2008 world financial melt down.  (Just the fact that the term “monetary policy” can occur in the same sentence as “communist government” says everything about how mutated and unrecognizable the term “communist” has become in the context of China).  Belt and road is a reaction to long term internal financial and economic need,   Not a knee jerk reactive policy adopted because of freaking out by policies someone else adopted.   

China has the the surplus capacity sitting around.   If they are not used they will further crater business and consumer sentiment.    The west does not have the capacity to match it, and needs to sustain higher government spending to acquire it.

Belt and road is in this sense not ambitious because it does not presume sustained singularity of purpose, perseverance and determination divorced from economic imperative.    It will last because even if the will flags, the need will persist.      Biden’s plan is ambitious precisely because it does depend on maintaining singularity of purpose not matched by economic imperative in the long run.    So Belt and road, or some version of it, is likely to be more enduring than its western counterpart.

I'm not in a band, but I'm also afraid of being banned.

(September 11, 2023 at 12:11 am)WinterHold Wrote: No wonder Xi dodged the slap of attending this American-Western demolition for the Chinese "New Silk Road".
Biden is declaring a new World War; now we have 2 sides:

1-China & Russia on one end with their own economical road
2-America and its allies on the other end with their own economical road.

Traditionally World Wars begin with fewer announcements.  The first one began when Germany crossed into Belgium, unannounced.  The second one began when German crossed into Poland, unannounced.