(December 5, 2023 at 5:30 pm)Confused-by-christianity Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 5:24 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Why?  Why don't you believe it was just you talking to yourself?

it was like when another person speaks to me.  like you are now.

I still think it could've just been the demon messing with you. You might not think it's funny, but the demon might.

(December 5, 2023 at 5:44 pm)h4ym4n Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 2:48 pm)Confused-by-christianity Wrote: I cant say i really saw him.  he was like a presence.  something i knew was there that wasnt me.  so was the bad thing.

Why did you jump to the conclusion it was jesus and not aliens?

I knew it was jesus.  knowledge - i just sort of knew

(December 5, 2023 at 5:46 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 5:30 pm)Confused-by-christianity Wrote: it was like when another person speaks to me.  like you are now.

I still think it could've just been the demon messing with you. You might not think it's funny, but the demon might.

i cant say it wasnt.

(December 5, 2023 at 12:10 pm)Confused-by-christianity Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 12:07 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: So the things that you wanted in life during a dark time: hope, purpose, love, morality, protection, etc you got a strong sense of being true whilst receiving a pleasant numinous experience which you interpreted as being connected to the key religious figure of your existing cultural milieu.

I'm sure it seemed profound and meaningful, and I'm glad that it helped you escape a bad place in your life, and I'm also glad you are not blindly following the bible but rather evaluating it within the light of your own conscience.  But it does seem very much likely to me to be a purely psychological experience, the benefits of which could be had without any belief in the supernatural or Christianity.

yeah - we see things very similarly.

except you think its in my head and i think it was from an outside reality.

If im right - one day we will find out eh??!!  ;-)

Not necessarily; there's multiple possible options. Maybe it was in your head, and we will find that out. Maybe it was outside your head but neither of us will ever have that confirmed. Maybe it was outside your head but was Satan misleading you into false beliefs about Jesus to trick your soul into eternal damnation. Maybe it was this, that or the other.

Given there could a huge range of possible options it seems best to evaluate the experience sceptically and carefully, and if possible also test it and rule out various possibilities. I would suggest caution, especially where intense subjective experiences that occurred in deeply emotional times are concerned; doubly so if they seem to meet a felt need at the time and resemble wish fulfillment.

The danger is that this intense experience could lead you into accepting beliefs and ideologies you wouldn't accept from a more dispassionate, rational and objective consideration. Of that, I would beware. And I say that as someone who was an adult convert who had intense emotional experiences at a difficult time in my life that offered me hope, only to find that I too readily accepted religion and that my poor judgement negatively impacted the rest of my life. Your experience might have been benign, but where it might lead you may not be.

(December 5, 2023 at 6:13 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 12:10 pm)Confused-by-christianity Wrote: yeah - we see things very similarly.

except you think its in my head and i think it was from an outside reality.

If im right - one day we will find out eh??!!  ;-)

Not necessarily; there's multiple possible options.  Maybe it was in your head, and we will find that out.  Maybe it was outside your head but neither of us will ever have that confirmed. Maybe it was outside your head but was Satan misleading you into false beliefs about Jesus to trick your soul into eternal damnation.  Maybe it was this, that or the other.

Given there could a huge range of possible options it seems best to evaluate the experience sceptically and carefully, and if possible also test it and rule out various possibilities.  I would suggest caution, especially where intense subjective experiences that occurred in deeply emotional times are concerned; doubly so if they seem to meet a felt need at the time and resemble wish fulfillment.  

The danger is that this intense experience could lead you into accepting beliefs and ideologies you wouldn't accept from a more dispassionate, rational and objective consideration.  Of that, I would beware.  And I say that as someone who was an adult convert who had intense emotional experiences at a difficult time in my life that offered me hope, only to find that I too readily accepted religion and that my poor judgement negatively impacted the rest of my life.  Your experience might have been benign, but where it might lead you may not be.

Thank you.

Thanks for taking the time to write all that and thanks for your advice.  

Im sorry about your time in religion and thank you for going through it all again to explain to me for my benefit.  I appreciate that and i appreciate your replies on the board :-)

No problem. Thanks.

You cant say whether it was jesus or a demon, fine, but you could say whether you had this convo from the left, right, or stereo. Whether you had this convo with a male or female voice. Whether you had this convo with a person who spoke english or swahili. Whether you had this convo with a person who had an accent or a habit of rolling their "r"s.

You would, should, or could know all of that, even if you don't know whether it was devil stuff or jesus stuff.

(December 5, 2023 at 5:53 pm)Confused-by-christianity Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 5:44 pm)h4ym4n Wrote: Why did you jump to the conclusion it was jesus and not aliens?

I knew it was jesus.  knowledge - i just sort of knew

You knew it was something making you believe it was jesus or you sort of knew

Wouldn’t jesus know before you that god was sending demons to fuck with you? 

Why’d jesus wait until you cried? 

That’s when yahweh cut him loose to save you?

Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. 

(December 5, 2023 at 6:58 pm)h4ym4n Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 5:53 pm)Confused-by-christianity Wrote: I knew it was jesus.  knowledge - i just sort of knew

You knew it was something making you believe it was jesus or you sort of knew

Wouldn’t jesus know before you that god was sending demons to fuck with you? 

Why’d jesus wait until you cried? 

That’s when yahweh cut him loose to save you?

Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. 

Haven’t we been over this???

(December 5, 2023 at 5:46 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 5:30 pm)Confused-by-christianity Wrote: it was like when another person speaks to me.  like you are now.

I still think it could've just been the demon messing with you. You might not think it's funny, but the demon might.

Demon, schmemon.

Boru