That's an interesting arc for your family. From ethnically but not religiously jewish in the 20's - to culturally christian by your birth and now religiously christian. What, three generations? Four? I suppose that tracks with the rate of assimilation here in the us. Are you the first in the community, or were your parents also in?

(June 18, 2024 at 6:41 pm)Questor Wrote:

(June 18, 2024 at 5:44 pm)GUBU Wrote: You're never going to not be a christian, christian.  Unless you deconvert.

Strange that it matters so much to you, to call me something that literally does not compute in my poor brain. 

It must be the Catholic influence from your former pentacostalist days, for it is the Catholics who required 'conversion' to their way of thought, and on pain of death. You still think that way, and must be having a great deal of trouble undoing all the bad information your received in your childhood.

Because I want you to at least stop lying to us, christian. A tiny smidge of respect for your fellow users of a forum would be the very minimum expected of a moral being.

Plus, I know full well it really pisses you off, otherwise you wouldn't be constructing ever more elaborate lies about your religious beliefs.

(June 22, 2024 at 10:45 am)GUBU Wrote:

(June 18, 2024 at 6:41 pm)Questor Wrote: Strange that it matters so much to you, to call me something that literally does not compute in my poor brain. 

It must be the Catholic influence from your former pentacostalist days, for it is the Catholics who required 'conversion' to their way of thought, and on pain of death. You still think that way, and must be having a great deal of trouble undoing all the bad information your received in your childhood.

Because I want you to at least stop lying to us, christian.  A tiny smidge of respect for your fellow users of a forum would be the very minimum expected of a moral being.

Plus, I know full well it really pisses you off, otherwise you wouldn't be constructing ever more elaborate lies about your religious beliefs.

There is no need to lie to you, and I do avoid doing so, so I am acting as a moral being. As for respect for the users of the forum, I am trying very hard to discuss matters that we will never agree on in a civil manner. How can I be more respectful?

Still, I can say the sun is yellow, and you will say it is green, if you think it disturbs me. Call me anything you want, but be aware that it does not make me so.

Christians have beliefs derived from Judaism, and I wish only they would come a bit further towards the original belief system, but they are not at fault for being badly taught, just as you are not. They, and you, show a distinct laziness in not addressing their ignorance, and calling names is merely childish.

How I must get under your skin for you to be so passionately determined to shout CHRISTIAN at me.

No matter the flavor, godibois and girls are simply fictional.

Absolute nonsense conjured up by fearful, ignorant, and most of all, arrogant creatures.

(June 21, 2024 at 2:17 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: That's an interesting arc for your family.  From ethnically but not religiously jewish in the 20's - to culturally christian by your birth and now religiously christian.  What, three generations?  Four? I suppose that tracks with the rate of assimilation here in the us.  Are you the first in the community, or were your parents also in?

Actually, no, for there have been many Jews that held to their heritage, and allowed a patina of what is a Gentile belief system to protect them from persecution. But true assimilation is usually by the 3rd generation, and yet my family was clinging enough to Judaism as to marry only within the family, so to speak, and thus did not do so. They knew they were Jews, and fought to hide it. My poor grandmother had her nose bobbed without anesthesia in the 1910's, trying for normality, and yet married all the same another Jew! What my family believed was demonstrated, or accidentally revealed, because 'it was what we did', and they could not bring themselves to enter a church once past the age of twelve except for a wedding or funeral, and even them, only with loud complaints.
 
What I find fascinating is the assumption that if one follows a Jewish Rabbi that Gentiles also follow, but in a highly divergent way, one is instantly seen as a Christian, when our very different beliefs meet only in the beginning years of Nazarene Judaism that was the result of the death and resurrection of a Jew called Yeshua. Christianity developed over centuries, and to some degree, still does, and often in direct contradiction to what Yeshua himself lived and taught as an observant Jew. Judaism is still Judaism, even with Yeshua, for everything in Torah and the Prophets point to him.
 
As for the generations of religious belief, my parents were but a few of many generations who wanted to survive, and fled to America, and went underground. 
 
I never have been culturally Christian, never having been accepted among that group, and indeed, wanted not to be, as it was they who required adherence to what they believed, and in essence was conversion to what was often non-scripturally based assumptions. I merely wanted what the Scriptures described and promised. To me, this is so for every Jew who finds out a smidgeon of information about the prophecies that are commonly hid by their Rabbi's, research the matter in the Scriptures, and are not inclined to adopting a non-Jewish belief system, even one with truth at the heart of it.
 
Gentiles have no physical inheritance in Judaism, and thus, upon belief in Yeshua, are always first generation believers in that they are presumed to be proselytes to Judaism. They can teach what they know to their children, but it doesn't create a connection with Judaism until they are grafted into Yeshua by adhering to him above all else. Thus, Christians are always first generations adherents to Messiah.

(June 22, 2024 at 4:18 pm)no one Wrote: No matter the flavor, godibois and girls are simply fictional.

Absolute nonsense conjured up by fearful, ignorant, and most of all, arrogant creatures.

In your opinion. 

I fervantly uphold your right to be wrong, and to choose to believe in ways contrary to mine.

I am sorry for it, of course, because I believe there are consequences that ensue past the time of this mortal body, but even YHWH does not force such a thing. 

YHWH invites, persuades, and pleads, but he will not stand in the way of your free will choice.

(June 22, 2024 at 4:42 pm)Questor Wrote:

(June 22, 2024 at 4:18 pm)no one Wrote: No matter the flavor, godibois and girls are simply fictional.

Absolute nonsense conjured up by fearful, ignorant, and most of all, arrogant creatures.

In your opinion. 

I fervantly uphold your right to be wrong, and to choose to believe in ways contrary to mine.

I am sorry for it, of course, because I believe there are consequences that ensue past the time of this mortal body, but even YHWH does not force such a thing. 

YHWH invites, persuades, and pleads, but he will not stand in the way of your free will choice.

‘Horseshit.’ - Paul’s Epistle to the Aquilonians, 8:3. 

Also, 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12

Boru

(June 22, 2024 at 3:25 pm)Questor Wrote:

(June 22, 2024 at 10:45 am)GUBU Wrote: Because I want you to at least stop lying to us, christian.  A tiny smidge of respect for your fellow users of a forum would be the very minimum expected of a moral being.

Plus, I know full well it really pisses you off, otherwise you wouldn't be constructing ever more elaborate lies about your religious beliefs.

There is no need to lie to you,

Then why do you do it christian?

I take it from the above that you are the first person in your family in the community. If I have that wrong a simple "nah, my dad was in too" would suffice.

When I mentioned before that I was familiar with the pitch I suppose I should have also made it explicit that I wasn't interested in the pitch - but how you came to it, how you came to be who you are. A second gen christian would simply be a christian who's family had converted to christianity the generation before them. Similarly, a second gen messianic jew would have parents who also identified as such. Do you?

(June 22, 2024 at 5:08 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(June 22, 2024 at 4:42 pm)Questor Wrote: In your opinion. 

I fervantly uphold your right to be wrong, and to choose to believe in ways contrary to mine.

I am sorry for it, of course, because I believe there are consequences that ensue past the time of this mortal body, but even YHWH does not force such a thing. 

YHWH invites, persuades, and pleads, but he will not stand in the way of your free will choice.

‘Horseshit.’ - Paul’s Epistle to the Aquilonians, 8:3. 

Also, 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12

Boru

Ah! Another Paulinite! And you are a cherry picker too, taking verses out of context!

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 (CJB)
9  When this man who avoids Torah comes, the Adversary will give him the power to work all kinds of false miracles, signs and wonders.
10  He will enable him to deceive, in all kinds of wicked ways, those who are headed for destruction because they would not receive the love of the truth that could have saved them.
11  This is why God is causing them to go astray, so that they will believe the Lie.
12  The result will be that all who have not believed the truth, but have taken their pleasure in wickedness, will be condemned.

The ones in question refused the love of the truth, and thus are more than willing to believe lies they already chose above the truth they were offered. YHWH does not have to forever woo and persuade when someone is adamant about their refusal of him. At that point, they simply become useful idiots.