(September 28, 2024 at 12:31 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(September 28, 2024 at 10:31 am)Leonardo17 Wrote:    You seem to know about this issues more than I do. While the issue of Hitler’s involvement on Mystical belief systems is largely debated among historians, many important Nazi figures are known to be deep into this kind of stuff:

https://www.historynet.com/obsessed-with-the-occult/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occultism_in_Nazism

   I’m currently reading that this is another feature of people with megalomania or narcissistic personality types. They are said to like the idea of getting ahead of everyone else through diabolic / new type of technologies that will allow them to get ahead of everyone else. The obsession of Nazis with ancient religious artifacts portrayed in the Indiana Jones where thus far from being invented. So while this is an open debate, I believe that Hitler too was largely involved in this kind of stuff because it was a popular thing in that era. The 30’ was the golden age of many magical societies (In Europe and North America), all sort of parapsychological “research”, and famous mediums communicating with the dead. I just read that Nazis even tried to resurrect their dead pilots at some point.

There really is no debate about Hitler's beliefs. Rather than read wikipedia, read John Toland's two-volume biography, and/or Shirer's history of the Third Reich. It's true that at the end of his life he was looking to astrology for answers to how Germany might stave off defeat, but that was such a minor portion of his life that it pales in comparison to his monotheistic beliefs.

The idea that Nazis were based on magical thinking is a misapprehension, probably inserted into modern misinformation by the Indiana Jones movie. Sure, some were pagan mystics. They were by far in the minority.

I'd like to see reputable sources for your claims herein, especially the attempted use of magic to resurrect pilots. I've been studying this stuff for forty years and have seen no mention of that, even in Williamson Murray's works. Note that by "reputable" I mean writers and researchers with established track records in the history of the Third Reich.

Leo would also benefit from a more careful reading of the Wikipedia article to which he linked. It really doesn’t support his views on this.

Boru

(September 28, 2024 at 12:40 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Leo would also benefit from a more careful reading of the Wikipedia article to which he linked. It really doesn’t support his views on this.

Boru

I confess I didn't read that one. I've seen so many clear historical errors in wiki articles that they hold very little credibility to me.

(September 28, 2024 at 1:02 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(September 28, 2024 at 12:40 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Leo would also benefit from a more careful reading of the Wikipedia article to which he linked. It really doesn’t support his views on this.

Boru

I confess I didn't read that one. I've seen so many clear historical errors in wiki articles that they hold very little credibility to me.

The article largely focuses on the work of Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke (an actual historian) who makes the compelling case that occultism in the Third Reich is largely a case of modern mythology and sensationalism. To wit:

Quote:The works of the genre, he wrote,

Quote:were typically sensational and under-researched. Complete ignorance of the primary sources was common to most authors and inaccuracies and wild claims were repeated by each newcomer to the genre until abundant literature existed, based on wholly spurious 'facts' concerning the powerful Thule society,the Nazi links with the East, and Hitler's occult initiation.

Boru

(September 28, 2024 at 2:20 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(September 28, 2024 at 1:02 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I confess I didn't read that one. I've seen so many clear historical errors in wiki articles that they hold very little credibility to me.

The article largely focuses on the work of Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke (an actual historian) who makes the compelling case that occultism in the Third Reich is largely a case of modern mythology and sensationalism. To wit:

Quote:The works of the genre, he wrote,

Boru

Thanks, Brian. That's pretty much the consensus of the many sources, some primary, which I've read. Shirer refers to the rallies as "pagan-like", but that is not the same as "pagan" and a wordsmith like Shirer would be well aware of the distinction. He attended several rallies, including those at Nuremberg, as an accredited journalist, making him a primary source. He also interviewed Speer, the man charged with orchestrating the rallies and designing the accoutrements. Speer reported that Hitler wanted overawing pageantry, not paganism.

When I am on break at work and go outside for some fresh air, or in other quiet moments, I do sometimes wonder what things would be like if we actually went to war with Russia (like officially, not this proxy war stuff with Ukraine)

You can go on Reddit and see the extreme horror of the meat grinder of this conflict in full HD, mostly with drones dropping grenades or other explosives on people or Go-Pro helmet cams, over the last ten years I've seen a lot of different footage for conflicts, but nothing compares to the volume of this.

I have never been on the app "Telegram" but I have heard there is a lot of horrific footage there. Whereas it will be pro Ukrainian /westernised footage on Reddit, apparently there is a lot of Russian footage too. Which makes me wonder if the recent(ish) arrest of Telegrams founder and owner is something to do with controlling the flow of information, alongside everything else they are accused of.

I just wonder where all of this will lead, and wether I will be hearing air raid sirens in the UK at some future point.

(September 29, 2024 at 10:03 am)bemore Wrote: I just wonder where all of this will lead, and wether I will be hearing air raid sirens in the UK at some future point.

You won't. Russia has its hands full with Ukraine. Do you think they want to fight NATO? Do you think the Chinese will allow it? No, and no.

(September 29, 2024 at 10:03 am)bemore Wrote: I just wonder where all of this will lead, and wether I will be hearing air raid sirens in the UK at some future point.

Russia has, now many times exactly, "hinted" at nuclear war? Before tanks were sent, before MLRS was sent, before arty was sent, before manpads were sent, before ATGMs were sent, before IFVs were sent, before F16s were sent, before i let a fart in Russia's general direction.......
You still didnt get the gist?

(September 29, 2024 at 10:53 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(September 29, 2024 at 10:03 am)bemore Wrote: I just wonder where all of this will lead, and wether I will be hearing air raid sirens in the UK at some future point.

You won't. Russia has its hands full with Ukraine. Do you think they want to fight NATO? Do you think the Chinese will allow it? No, and no.

I hope that you're right.

I think one of the current potential escalatory factors is if we allow Ukraine to use long range missiles further into Russia.

If we did, then Russia may decide to take out US satellites that are part of the guidance systems.

I don't know how the west would react if that happened.

(September 29, 2024 at 11:53 am)bemore Wrote:

(September 29, 2024 at 10:53 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: You won't. Russia has its hands full with Ukraine. Do you think they want to fight NATO? Do you think the Chinese will allow it? No, and no.

I hope that you're right.

I think one of the current potential escalatory factors is if we allow Ukraine to use long range missiles further into Russia.

If we did, then Russia may decide to take out US satellites that are part of the guidance systems.

I don't know how the west would react if that happened.

Remember how Putin and his flunkies predicted the war in Ukraine would last three days? If Putin attacks a NATO member, he’d be lucky to last three days. He’s mired down in a war against one country. How long do you imagine he’d hold out against the combined might of 32?

Boru

(September 29, 2024 at 11:53 am)bemore Wrote: I hope that you're right.

I think one of the current potential escalatory factors is if we allow Ukraine to use long range missiles further into Russia.

If we did, then Russia may decide to take out US satellites that are part of the guidance systems.

I don't know how the west would react if that happened.

You know, I've had my ass kicked in a schoolyard fight a time or three. I never once challenged a bystander to pile in against me.

Additionally, check this out. it only covers up to mid-2023:



They've made plenty of escalation threats in 2024, as well, that proved empty too.