(5 hours ago)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(7 hours ago)Leonardo17 Wrote:    You seem to know about this issues more than I do. While the issue of Hitler’s involvement on Mystical belief systems is largely debated among historians, many important Nazi figures are known to be deep into this kind of stuff:

https://www.historynet.com/obsessed-with-the-occult/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occultism_in_Nazism

   I’m currently reading that this is another feature of people with megalomania or narcissistic personality types. They are said to like the idea of getting ahead of everyone else through diabolic / new type of technologies that will allow them to get ahead of everyone else. The obsession of Nazis with ancient religious artifacts portrayed in the Indiana Jones where thus far from being invented. So while this is an open debate, I believe that Hitler too was largely involved in this kind of stuff because it was a popular thing in that era. The 30’ was the golden age of many magical societies (In Europe and North America), all sort of parapsychological “research”, and famous mediums communicating with the dead. I just read that Nazis even tried to resurrect their dead pilots at some point.

There really is no debate about Hitler's beliefs. Rather than read wikipedia, read John Toland's two-volume biography, and/or Shirer's history of the Third Reich. It's true that at the end of his life he was looking to astrology for answers to how Germany might stave off defeat, but that was such a minor portion of his life that it pales in comparison to his monotheistic beliefs.

The idea that Nazis were based on magical thinking is a misapprehension, probably inserted into modern misinformation by the Indiana Jones movie. Sure, some were pagan mystics. They were by far in the minority.

I'd like to see reputable sources for your claims herein, especially the attempted use of magic to resurrect pilots. I've been studying this stuff for forty years and have seen no mention of that, even in Williamson Murray's works. Note that by "reputable" I mean writers and researchers with established track records in the history of the Third Reich.

Leo would also benefit from a more careful reading of the Wikipedia article to which he linked. It really doesn’t support his views on this.

Boru

(5 hours ago)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Leo would also benefit from a more careful reading of the Wikipedia article to which he linked. It really doesn’t support his views on this.

Boru

I confess I didn't read that one. I've seen so many clear historical errors in wiki articles that they hold very little credibility to me.

(5 hours ago)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(5 hours ago)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Leo would also benefit from a more careful reading of the Wikipedia article to which he linked. It really doesn’t support his views on this.

Boru

I confess I didn't read that one. I've seen so many clear historical errors in wiki articles that they hold very little credibility to me.

The article largely focuses on the work of Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke (an actual historian) who makes the compelling case that occultism in the Third Reich is largely a case of modern mythology and sensationalism. To wit:

Quote:The works of the genre, he wrote,

Quote:were typically sensational and under-researched. Complete ignorance of the primary sources was common to most authors and inaccuracies and wild claims were repeated by each newcomer to the genre until abundant literature existed, based on wholly spurious 'facts' concerning the powerful Thule society,the Nazi links with the East, and Hitler's occult initiation.

Boru

(4 hours ago)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(5 hours ago)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I confess I didn't read that one. I've seen so many clear historical errors in wiki articles that they hold very little credibility to me.

The article largely focuses on the work of Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke (an actual historian) who makes the compelling case that occultism in the Third Reich is largely a case of modern mythology and sensationalism. To wit:

Quote:The works of the genre, he wrote,

Boru

Thanks, Brian. That's pretty much the consensus of the many sources, some primary, which I've read. Shirer refers to the rallies as "pagan-like", but that is not the same as "pagan" and a wordsmith like Shirer would be well aware of the distinction. He attended several rallies, including those at Nuremberg, as an accredited journalist, making him a primary source. He also interviewed Speer, the man charged with orchestrating the rallies and designing the accoutrements. Speer reported that Hitler wanted overawing pageantry, not paganism.