Quote:Believe what you wish, and perhaps spend some more time re-reading what I actually said. I'm afraid you've missed the forest for the trees.

Let's take a look at the forest then, shall we?

Quote:Exchange the word theists with atheists and the word atheists with theists in your OP and nothing changes.

Wait, is that you saying his insult works both ways just before going on to preach tolerance and acting like insults are horrible? Wait? If the OP is an insult and you turn that insult on atheists aren't you just as bad as you perceive the OP to be?

Quote:Tolerance is so under appreciated, and it's quite sad to see it everyday on this forum.

I'm going to assume you meant intolerance and go with, "What do you expect from a forum that invites all kinds of theists?" Theists aren't exactly the picture of tolerance. You have to remember, tolerance is not always a good thing. Should we tolerate hate? You're not tolerating the OP's post. Is that sad?

Quote:A belief does not make one individual better than another.

Not necessarily. Besides, that is a strawman. The OP never said athiests are better than theists. The point was made that theists use religion as a security blanket.

Quote:I'm constantly baffled by the utter arrogance of most on this forum

Gosh, that looks like intolerance and hubris. Are you sure you want to keep that up? Being contradictory in a single post is not exactly taking the high road, pal.

Quote:not all theists are 'retards, morons, etc.' and I find that language to be completely horrendous.

Yes, they are far worse insults than "arrogant." An insult is an insult. I really hate it when people do that. It's like saying, "Don't call people retards, idiot." Yeah, awesome.

Quote:This isn't a discussion, nor a debate, this is blatant disregard for the emotions and personal beliefs of others.

And? Is there are rule against hurting people's feelings?

Quote:There is a distinct difference between discussing the topic of religion with someone who is open to it, and going around proclaiming that everyone who holds a certain belief is stupid and beyond help.

Look! Another strawman.

Quote:Get over yourself and learn some humility, please.

And my favorite. Take your own advice. A simple, "I'm not sure that is the nicest thing to say and I disagree for *insert reasons here*" would have served you much better.

(December 31, 2011 at 1:42 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(December 31, 2011 at 1:36 pm)whateverist Wrote: If we all spent less time congratulating ourselves for our insight and disparaging others for disagreeing we could have more interesting conversations.

Really? I just love these "wouldn't the forum be so much better if everyone was Jesus" moments. You try having an interesting conversation that consists of "Dinosaurs and people lived together" and "Well, sir, I politely disagree." "You're going to hell." "Well, I disagree with that too." ad infinitum. People aren't disparaging others for disagreeing. They are disparaging others for supporting hate-filled dogma that should have been discarded centuries ago. When someone inserts a religious bias that is detrimental to the forward momentum of mankind, you bet I'm going to chew his ass out. This is already the most theist welcoming atheist forum I know of. I don't think we need to take it further than that.

It's always interesting and enlightening to see how ones attempt to communicate fall short: "wouldn't the forum be so much better if everyone was Jesus" moments". I don't think my motivation is anything like that. My motivations are almost always selfish. (Screw Jesus.) I just am interested in hearing the truth behind what people say. Any time you disagree with someone there is usually plenty of obvious shit to call them on. But if the shit I call them on isn't what motivated what they said, what's the point?

People are so complex. We should know that, after all we are people too. It is so easy to go wrong but I believe in most cases that happens while we are trying to get something right. So rather than roast them for the mistakes I'd like to understand their intentions. That doesn't mean I don't get pissed off too. There are disingenuous theist jerks who I won't waste my breath on. So when you feel the need to breath a little fire I feel you.

(December 31, 2011 at 1:49 pm)Perhaps Wrote: What separates your attitude towards your own beliefs from the theist's toward theirs?

As it pertains to religion, I do not have any beliefs. That's a pretty big difference. That is regarding all theists. If we broke it down a little, I could say my position towards religion (not beliefs, mind you) holds a lot less hatred, bigotry and overall warmongering.

Quote:Dogma comes in many forms, and as I said, there is a distinct difference between discussion among open-minded peers, and proclaiming arrogance to those who wish not to hear it.

He is among his peers. This is a fucking atheist forum where theists are welcome openly. Nonetheless, it is still an atheist forum. Just because you do not wish to hear it does not mean his peers are not open to his opinion. If you want open discussion with your "peers," why are you on an atheist forum? It's not that you are not welcome, but I am seriously confused. Did you think you would find a bunch of atheists that go, "Oh, you really could be right. Maybe I am not so atheist after all?" We disagree with you, champ. Trying to figure out why theists think they way they do is perfectly acceptable and was the mission of the OP.

Congratulations.

Listen, the guy thinks that you cannot prove that anything exists, because he lives in a pseudo-philoso-babble-bubble.

You might as well talk to your curtains.

Great effort though!

(December 31, 2011 at 2:10 pm)whateverist Wrote: People are so complex. We should know that, after all we are people too. It is so easy to go wrong but I believe in most cases that happens while we are trying to get something right. So rather than roast them for the mistakes I'd like to understand their intentions. That doesn't mean I don't get pissed off too. There are disingenuous theist jerks who I won't waste my breath on. So when you feel the need to breath a little fire I feel you.

I do that with atheists too. Sometimes, a person's intentions are understood and that is why people get pissed. We do have limitations here, but we do not expect people to hold hands and sing kumbaya. I would say the same to someone who came in and said, "Why don't we just tell off all of those theist fuckers?" I mean, come on. Extreme is either end of the spectrum. It is just as extreme to expect total peace as it is to expect all out war.

---

(December 31, 2011 at 2:13 pm)Norfolk And Chance Wrote: Listen, the guy thinks that you cannot prove that anything exists, because he lives in a pseudo-philoso-babble-bubble.

You might as well talk to your curtains.

Great effort though!

Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. Now I feel like I am talking to my nonexistent curtains.

Hey, if nothing exists, why be nice?

Indeed, LOL.

(December 31, 2011 at 10:26 am)Voltair Wrote: Godschild, from a theological standpoint I will agree that Jesus made things easier through bringing in the New Covenant. However what I am speaking of is evidence that it is actually true.

I understand the idea of well just have faith and trust that it is true but are you being equal in your trust? Do you trust the writings of other ancients who make theological claims? If you do not trust others but only trust the Christian writers what is your criteria?

First it is faith that there is a God, then it is faith that the men who wrote it down actually saw what they said they did, then it is believing that although miraculous events are impossible now that they can really happen. If I told you I had an invisible dragon in my garage, thanks Sagan, you could put enough trust in me to believe me but why should you?

The skeptics here are not believing just because they really really don't want to. Don't get me wrong a lot of us REALLY don't want to as well but we can't see a reason why we could even if we wanted to. If the solution is to just have faith and throw evidence/reason to the wind then there is no rational way for us to get to faith.

This is why claims such as miracles etc could/should be easily validated by an all powerful being. Most people are going to agree with me that this being will NOT prove his existence in any direct way but they believe that for a different reason than I do. There is usually some theological justification that is mustered/attempted to explain why God cannot do something that would make evangelism and Christianity a whole lot easier. That thing is to actually prove that he is real.

I understand what your saying, no evidence, no God, belief without reason is no belief. However God has not chosen to work in a way that you think He should. There are many things I could say but, I'm sure you have already heard them, what I do know comes through personal experience and after years of study, prayer and those personal experiences I have no doubts about God and what He has done for mankind. I can not give you or anyone reasons why God exist unless one is willing to believe through faith. When I came to this forum I knew what to expect, my reason to be here is to learn from the questions that challenge what I believe (know) and to defend what I see as the truth when an argument seems to merit a discussion. God works miracles all the time but, with today's knowledge people dismiss them as mere chance, how is it the unexplained is no longer a miracle but mere chance because of knowledge. This does not make sense to me, the unexplained is still unexplained regardless of the amount of knowledge man has.

If Chipan backpedals much further, he'll become a foetus.

Can I also just say that 'atheist fucker' has given me food for thought. Great poster.

Shelly B Wrote:Um, the part that I quoted.

A Bibley answer for you http://www.gotquestions.org/animal-sacrifices.html. Note how they mention that Jesus himself was a sacrifice. This mentions only blood and nothing about fire.

yes, jesus was a sacrifice, but he was not treated as such. the difference is:

1. he was exicuted by humans like a criminal
2. he was burried like a dead person
3. he rose from the dead

Shelly B Wrote:There are specific mentions of burnt offerings in the bible, but not all are burnt.

did you give an example of this? i can't find it can you quote it?

sorry it took me so long to respond to this, i'm on a lot of threads and this one got burried in posts