? It's their opinion and they'll shout it if they want to. Shout it if they want to. ?

(January 3, 2025 at 11:52 pm)TheWhiteMarten Wrote: One can be aware that trans people exist without also accepting that existence gives them an inherent right to define themselves and their place in society - particularly if it comes at the cost of others.

Do you believe that transgendered people determine their gender differently from the way cisgender people determine their gender, or the same way?

(January 4, 2025 at 3:38 am)Deesse23 Wrote:

(January 3, 2025 at 11:52 pm)TheWhiteMarten Wrote: One can be aware that trans people exist without also accepting that existence gives them an inherent right to define themselves and their place in society - particularly if it comes at the cost of others.

And who gets to define other people? YOU?

No; my position is that no one has the capability of defining themselves in a society - outside of through their own actions and achievements.

(January 4, 2025 at 3:29 pm)Angrboda Wrote:

(January 3, 2025 at 11:52 pm)TheWhiteMarten Wrote: One can be aware that trans people exist without also accepting that existence gives them an inherent right to define themselves and their place in society - particularly if it comes at the cost of others.

Do you believe that transgendered people determine their gender differently from the way cisgender people determine their gender, or the same way?

I'm not sure if this should be a preface or go after my answer - I don't believe cisgendered people determine their gender anymore than I believe transgendered individuals determine their gender; as we were taught in cultural anthropology gender is the series of expectations, roles, and ritualistic traditions that are expected from an individual based upon societal norms - while we can choose to break the norms we cannot redefine them, at least not as individuals.

I've not given it much thought from the individual perspective, but I would say that there are certain trends amongst the transgendered community - lower rates of educational achievement, higher rates of depression, sleep disorders, bipolar, etc - that would be prime suspects as to why their interpretation of what their role in society is differs from the rest of societies.

Sounds like Borg nonsense to me.

(January 4, 2025 at 10:45 am)Sheldon Wrote:

(January 3, 2025 at 11:52 pm)TheWhiteMarten Wrote: One can be aware that trans people exist without also accepting that existence gives them an inherent right to define themselves and their place in society - particularly if it comes at the cost of others.

Why would we withhold that right from one small group, when we grant it to everyone else?

No demographic has a right to define themselves or their place in society.

Xians do

(January 4, 2025 at 4:34 pm)Silver Wrote: Sounds like Borg nonsense to me.

Then you aren't listening very closely, as believing that people can define themselves through action and achievement rather than group association is about as antithesis to the drone-collective as you can get.

I would contend that those who have to put on makeup and mutilate their body to look like the rest of their clique, to claim glory and respect not from what they've done but whom they choose to associate themselves with and whom they can harass, is far more inline with the dreams of the Queen - and just to be clear, the "mutilate their body" is to keep it tied into the Borg practice of body modification of it's members.

(January 4, 2025 at 4:37 pm)h4ym4n Wrote: Xians do

In what way?

(January 4, 2025 at 4:43 pm)TheWhiteMarten Wrote:

(January 4, 2025 at 4:37 pm)h4ym4n Wrote: Xians do

In what way?

In the way that spite-filled, hateful people who wouldn’t know Jesus if they tripped over him self-identify as ‘Christians’. Check the mirror.

Boru