(January 4, 2025 at 4:22 pm)TheWhiteMarten Wrote:

(January 4, 2025 at 3:38 am)Deesse23 Wrote: And who gets to define other people? YOU?

No; my position is that no one has the capability of defining themselves in a society - outside of through their own actions and achievements.

Great, then you won't object when we deny Christians their Identity based on the rather mixed track record of Catholic priest while little children are present.
....settings with children, you remember?

Is it me or did TWM still not reply to what the "Cost" is to a society for people being trans? If/when he does so, id like to compare this to the cost of christian bigotry and misogyny. A society can rather afford to have trans people than having christians. Should we prohibit christians from being christians? I wonder why he is still struggling with basic human rights after i told him to read up on it.

His last reply seems to suggest, this is something that needs to be earned (through actions and achievements).  I wonder what other ethics 101 he is struggling with.

(January 5, 2025 at 9:36 am)Deesse23 Wrote: Is it me or did TWM still not reply to what the "Cost" is to a society for people being trans? If/when he does so, id like to compare this to the cost of christian bigotry and misogyny. A society can rather afford to have trans people than having christians. Should we prohibit christians from being christians? I wonder why he is still struggling with basic human rights after i told him to read up on it.

His last reply seems to suggest, this is something that needs to be earned (through actions and achievements).  I wonder what other ethics 101 he is struggling with.

He seems to avoid answering direct questions and doesn't provide citations.

What he is babbling about are his own fears, prejudices, and insecurities.

Tough guy isn't so tough when he has to put up or shut up.

(January 4, 2025 at 4:32 pm)TheWhiteMarten Wrote:

(January 4, 2025 at 3:29 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Do you believe that transgendered people determine their gender differently from the way cisgender people determine their gender, or the same way?

I've not given it much thought from the individual perspective, but I would say that there are certain trends amongst the transgendered community - lower rates of educational achievement, higher rates of depression, sleep disorders, bipolar, etc - that would be prime suspects as to why their interpretation of what their role in society is differs from the rest of societies.

I agree, it is clear you haven't given it much thought. Of course people whose gender identity is at odds with their biological sex, might cope less well in most aspects of their lives, being persecuted by bigots on top of that gender dysphoria, just for who they are, won't help that. 

We duly note another string of claims, without any pretence of proper evidence though. 

Any thoughts on why you care so much about the gender identity of others, or how (as you claimed) it costs others? Only you seem to have lurched into your next string of unevidenced claims, in yet another disjointed rant, without pausing to explain or evidence the previous ones?

(January 5, 2025 at 9:36 am)Deesse23 Wrote: Is it me or did TWM still not reply to what the "Cost" is to a society for people being trans?

Don't hold your breath. You also won't get a reply on the inadvisability of handing over your moral compass to an organization with no proper oversight and a history of corruption and sexual abuse.

(January 5, 2025 at 11:16 am)Sheldon Wrote:

(January 4, 2025 at 4:32 pm)TheWhiteMarten Wrote: I've not given it much thought from the individual perspective, but I would say that there are certain trends amongst the transgendered community - lower rates of educational achievement, higher rates of depression, sleep disorders, bipolar, etc - that would be prime suspects as to why their interpretation of what their role in society is differs from the rest of societies.

I agree, it is clear you haven't given it much thought. Of course people whose gender identity is at odds with their biological sex, might cope less well in most aspects of their lives, being persecuted by bigots on top of that gender dysphoria, just for who they are, won't help that. 

We duly note another string of claims, without any pretence of proper evidence though. 

Any thoughts on why you care so much about the gender identity of others, or how (as you claimed) it costs others? Only you seem to have lurched into your next string of unevidenced claims, in yet another disjointed rant, without pausing to explain or evidence the previous ones?

Note that none of his so called trends lead to his conclusion

(January 5, 2025 at 9:36 am)Deesse23 Wrote: Is it me or did TWM still not reply to what the "Cost" is to a society for people being trans? If/when he does so, id like to compare this to the cost of christian bigotry and misogyny. A society can rather afford to have trans people than having christians. Should we prohibit christians from being christians? I wonder why he is still struggling with basic human rights after i told him to read up on it.

His last reply seems to suggest, this is something that needs to be earned (through actions and achievements).  I wonder what other ethics 101 he is struggling with.

(my bold)

TWM is too big a coward to approach this topic with any kind of intellectual honesty.

(January 5, 2025 at 11:16 am)Sheldon Wrote: I agree, it is clear you haven't given it much thought.

Why would this topic be different from any other. TWM strikes me as someone refuse to indulge in actual thought on any subject for fear his beliefs will be too fragile to withstand scrutiny.

Bigoted mentality has to maintain the same rhetoric in order to avoid acceptance of diversity.

(January 5, 2025 at 4:34 pm)Silver Wrote: Bigoted mentality has to maintain the same rhetoric in order to avoid acceptance of diversity.

It's unlikely you will ever dent a closed mind of course, but the fact that proper objective evidence, and answering questions are anathema to him, speaks volumes. 

The problem for me is that there is objective evidence that gender dysphoria exists, so his argument it is some kind of conspiracy concocted by nefarious scientists doesn't match that fact. He can't offer one single cogent word as to why it bothers him, can't offer any intelligent answer as to why we should let some people express who they are and not others, and can't offer an intelligible word, or any evidence as to why it need cost anyone anything, in fact he has run away from multiple requests he justify that claim, quelle surprise.