(January 1, 2012 at 11:25 pm)chipan Wrote: just b/c moses says "sacrifices and burnt offerings" doesn't mean not all sacrifices they had were burnt.

Um, yes, it does. Sacrifices and burnt offerings.

Quote:oh he was a sacrifice to God? for what exactly? lets look at only THE MOST POPULAR VERSE IN THE BIBLE shall we?

You are the worst Christian ever. The sins of man, dumbass.

John 3:16 Wrote:For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

There is nothing in this quote that says Jesus was not a sacrifice. I am not going to continue arguing this because I have clearly proven Jesus was a sacrifice to god so that man would have to sacrifice no more. You are just covering your ass.

Quote:so did we give him as a sacrifice to God or did God give him as a sacrifice to us? and i think you're ignoring the fact that he was EXICUTED BY THE ROMANS WHO WERE NONBELIEVERS. how is this sacrificial tradition?

Why did the Romans execute him? Come on, you must know your Bible better than this. He wasn't executed because of the Romans.

Shell B Wrote:Why did the Romans execute him? Come on, you must know your Bible better than this. He wasn't executed because of the Romans.

oh is that so?

Matthew 27 Wrote:1 When morning came, all the chief priests and elders of the people plotted against Jesus to put Him to death. 2 And when they had bound Him, they led Him away and delivered Him to Pontius[a] Pilate the governor.
17 Therefore, when they had gathered together, Pilate said to them, “Whom do you want me to release to you? Barabbas, or Jesus who is called Christ?” 18 For he knew that they had handed Him over because of envy.
19 While he was sitting on the judgment seat, his wife sent to him, saying, “Have nothing to do with that just Man, for I have suffered many things today in a dream because of Him.” 20 But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitudes that they should ask for Barabbas and destroy Jesus. 21 The governor answered and said to them, “Which of the two do you want me to release to you?” They said, “Barabbas!”
25 And all the people answered and said, “His blood be on us and on our children.” 26 Then he released Barabbas to them; and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered Him to be crucified.

(i skipped around b/c i didn't want to put the whole chapter up. the verses are numbered and they're all in that chapter.)

the thing is Pontius Pilate the governor of Judaea at the time. this is the story of how the high priests took him to Pilate for judgement. he didn't have anything against him and didn't want to exicute him but many of the Jews insisted.
WHO DOESN'T READ THEIR BIBLE?

Shell B Wrote:There is nothing in this quote that says Jesus was not a sacrifice. I am not going to continue arguing this because I have clearly proven Jesus was a sacrifice to god so that man would have to sacrifice no more. You are just covering your ass.

no you haven't. you say Jesus was a sacrifice given to God. read the verse and see WHO GIVES WHAT TO WHO. and another thing is that a sacrifice always involves a victim that is unwilling or decieved and jesus was neither. he was exicuted by man. he was only a sacrifice in the fact that God sacrificed him to cover the sins of man. he could have stopped it but he didn't, it was his will.

from this, i have gathered evidence that you clearly look through the bible just to look for an inconsistency or something that is wrong with it's morals. if you actually read it then you would understand it better. you can't take a sentence in the middle of a book and figure out what the book is about from that one sentence.

Quote:oh is that so?

Yes, you argue it for me.

Quote:the thing is Pontius Pilate the governor of Judaea at the time. this is the story of how the high priests took him to Pilate for judgement. he didn't have anything against him and didn't want to exicute him but many of the Jews insisted.
WHO DOESN'T READ THEIR BIBLE?

So, when you say it was the fault of Romans who were unbelievers and then go on to say that the Jews insisted even though Pilate did not want him murdered, you are okay with that? You have no qualms about your inconsistencies?

By the way, I do not own a Bible. I can just learn more from a Christopher Moore book than a biased douche like you could get from an entire Christian encyclopedia.

Quote:no you haven't. you say Jesus was a sacrifice given to God. read the verse and see WHO GIVES WHAT TO WHO.

I already did. Quit it with the all-caps bullshit or you'll get a warning.

Quote:and another thing is that a sacrifice always involves a victim that is unwilling or decieved and jesus was neither.

Really? Then why does every other proponent of your faith call it a sacrifice? You're being willfully stupid to cover up a stupid remark. I cannot stand that shit.

Quote:he was exicuted by man. he was only a sacrifice in the fact that God sacrificed him to cover the sins of man. he could have stopped it but he didn't, it was his will.

Executed has three Es. At any rate, you say man killed him and god sacrificed him. Which is it, dinglebert? Man killed all those other lambs too.

Quote:from this, i have gathered evidence that you clearly look through the bible just to look for an inconsistency or something that is wrong with it's morals. if you actually read it then you would understand it better. you can't take a sentence in the middle of a book and figure out what the book is about from that one sentence.

You dodgy little fucker. This has nothing to do with biblical inconsistencies. I have pointed out no inconsistencies in the bible here and mentioned nothing about its morals. I am pointing out your outright lies. Go take a course in logic, an English course while you are at it, a theology course and I think we can start again when you are done. I'm not going to keep debating with you. You fucking lie and misrepresent the entire conversation to cover up your own bullshit. I think there is a word for that.

Shelly B Wrote:So, when you say it was the fault of Romans who were unbelievers and then go on to say that the Jews insisted even though Pilate did not want him murdered, you are okay with that? You have no qualms about your inconsistencies?

someone didn't read what i posted.

chipan Wrote:and i think you're ignoring the fact that he was EXICUTED BY THE ROMANS WHO WERE NONBELIEVERS.

did i ever say it was the fault of the romans? i said they were the ones who did it not the ones who were responsible. i know the jews were the ones who were responsible.

Shell B Wrote:I already did. Quit it with the all-caps bullshit or you'll get a warning.

i put things in all caps as a way to highlight what's important. would you rather me bold it?

Shell B Wrote:Executed has three Es. At any rate, you say man killed him and god sacrificed him. Which is it, dinglebert? Man killed all those other lambs too.

i'm saying God sent him here for his sacrifice to us but it was humans who killed him. the big difference is that:
1. he was treated as a criminal
2. he was burried
3. he rose from the dead.

oh and i forgot to put a source down
http://www.tektonics.org/gk/humansac.html
you think i'm the only one? christians all over are defending our faith from your claims of human sacrifice being condoned.

I'm done with you, chipan. Not only is your manner of debate intellectually dishonest, but your spelling, punctuation and capitalization is giving me a headache. Believe whatever you want to believe. It does not make you less wrong.

Just an fyi, all caps is considered yelling.

well i didn't mean it to be yelling. i only made parts of sentences caps.

It's fine. I am just tired of your methods of "debate." Again, I'm done here. I sincerely hope that you learn to read things without adhering to your biases. Whether you cling to your beliefs or not is of little concern to me. I just hope for a little more honesty in your dealings with atheists. You cannot deposit strawmen, dodge direct questions and statements and cherry pick bible quotes without being called out on it. Since it is a waste of my time to converse with you at this point, I'm gone. Good luck.

i am honest with everything i present. i don't try to dodge important questions, i try to address every single one. i may miss some if i don't think they're important to the topic or they're a repeat of a question i have already answered. if i miss questions then you can just tell me and i'll deal with them.

I think that this entire thread proves the point in the OP.

My face hurts from all the palming.

Bye.

(January 2, 2012 at 1:38 pm)aleialoura Wrote: I think that this entire thread proves the point in the OP.

My face hurts from all the palming.

Bye.

what's OP?