Quote:Well, it was fun before you went back on broken record mode. See you in a few days when you reset.

Nothing I have said is "broken record mode" just nothing you have said has refuted or challenged my point . In a few days you'll still fail to have anything that actually challenges or refutes my initial point.

So let's sum up this thread 

1. A  zygote isn't fully human it's potentially human but not fully and that is scientific and has nothing to do with Nazi's 

2.We can encourage rape prevention while not insisting on force pregnancy's 

3. Taxation is consensual as when you joined a society you agreed to pay taxes and private charity  is not a replacement for government programs 

White has failed on every point so far 

 

(March 27, 2025 at 10:55 pm)TheWhiteMarten Wrote: "Fully human" - define this concept, because you cannot mean that in a scientific sense.

Neither is simply possessing the right genetic code and being at the start of development. Becoming human is a process and it has lots of pesky grey areas. People try to draw lines within those grey areas and codify them into law, which ends in tears. The notion that a fertilized cell is human in any but the most rudimentary and reductionist sense is laughable. It's entirely possible that it isn't even viable. The whole notion is founded in thunderingly ignorant religious dogma that was cooked up before the dark ages. The only thing more absurd would be the misbegotten idea that some Senator or other should have any say over a woman's body.

I have a compromise for the pro-birthers. For every woman who is forced to carry a child to term the offending sperm-donor shall have his balls sliced off. We've clearly thrown bodily autonomy out with the bath water and the idiot has demonstrated that he can't use them responsibly. Fucker damned near caused an abortion! A lovely deterrent that is guaranteed to prevent repeat offenders.

The depth and breadth of the ignorance displayed by TheWhiteMartinet in this tread alone is truly fucking staggering. It boggles the mind that one person can be so fundamentally wrong on so many different topics.

Oh and about his source it's not a legitimate scientific body it's a Conservative social advocacy group

Quote:The American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) is a socially conservative advocacy group of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals in the United States, founded in 2002.[1][2] The group advocates in favor of abstinence-only sex education and conversion therapy, and advocates against vaccine mandates, abortion rights and rights for LGBT people.[3][1][4] As of 2022, its membership has been reported at about 700 physicians.[5][6][1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_C...iatricians

(March 28, 2025 at 12:23 am)Paleophyte Wrote:

(March 27, 2025 at 10:55 pm)TheWhiteMarten Wrote: "Fully human" - define this concept, because you cannot mean that in a scientific sense.

Neither is simply possessing the right genetic code and being at the start of development. Becoming human is a process and it has lots of pesky grey areas. People try to draw lines within those grey areas and codify them into law, which ends in tears. The notion that a fertilized cell is human in any but the most rudimentary and reductionist sense is laughable. It's entirely possible that it isn't even viable. The whole notion is founded in thunderingly ignorant religious dogma that was cooked up before the dark ages. The only thing more absurd would be the misbegotten idea that some Senator or other should have any say over a woman's body.

I have a compromise for the pro-birthers. For every woman who is forced to carry a child to term the offending sperm-donor shall have his balls sliced off. We've clearly thrown bodily autonomy out with the bath water and the idiot has demonstrated that he can't use them responsibly. Fucker damned near caused an abortion! A lovely deterrent that is guaranteed to prevent repeat offenders.

Appreciate the civility.

The crux of my argument is derived from the problem you described; that unending grey zone of human opinion and the philosophical defenses of them simply cannot be used as a basis for legal doctrine - unequivocally so when the topic at hand is human rights.

We thus then can only turn to one source - science. 

The notion that a fertilized cell is human in any but the most rudimentary and reductionists sense is the entire point; *all* humans, even those at the most earliest stages of their development, deserve the basic human right of life. 

I am again perplexed by this idea that women are so fundamentally ignorant of sexual intercourse that they don't understand the risks of pregnancy and how it always somehow devolves into, "Men bad, hurt men."

Science in no way says that a zygote is fully human let alone that it has same rights as a full human

(March 28, 2025 at 12:23 am)Paleophyte Wrote:

(March 27, 2025 at 10:55 pm)TheWhiteMarten Wrote: "Fully human" - define this concept, because you cannot mean that in a scientific sense.

Neither is simply possessing the right genetic code and being at the start of development. Becoming human is a process and it has lots of pesky grey areas. People try to draw lines within those grey areas and codify them into law, which ends in tears. The notion that a fertilized cell is human in any but the most rudimentary and reductionist sense is laughable. It's entirely possible that it isn't even viable. The whole notion is founded in thunderingly ignorant religious dogma that was cooked up before the dark ages. The only thing more absurd would be the misbegotten idea that some Senator or other should have any say over a woman's body.

I have a compromise for the pro-birthers. For every woman who is forced to carry a child to term the offending sperm-donor shall have his balls sliced off. We've clearly thrown bodily autonomy out with the bath water and the idiot has demonstrated that he can't use them responsibly. Fucker damned near caused an abortion! A lovely deterrent that is guaranteed to prevent repeat offenders.

Indeed it's not yet fully human it's only potentially human

(March 28, 2025 at 12:27 am)The Architect Of Fate Wrote: Oh and about his source it's not a legitimate scientific body it's a Conservative social advocacy group

Quote:The American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) is a socially conservative advocacy group of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals in the United States, founded in 2002.[1][2] The group advocates in favor of abstinence-only sex education and conversion therapy, and advocates against vaccine mandates, abortion rights and rights for LGBT people.[3][1][4] As of 2022, its membership has been reported at about 700 physicians.[5][6][1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_C...iatricians

Oh got it - so it's only legitimate if it agrees with your political views, I forgot how that is how science works.

Golly jee, I sure got the nature of science wrong when I was young - no wonder my naive views of questioning and figuring things out for yourself got us in hot water.

Funny enough, the same people who blacklisted us now pat themselves on the back for having "discovered" 16,000 year old artifacts that "totally revolutionize the understanding of human settlement in the Americas!" that we told them about decades ago.

Academics are not scientists, sorry hunny.

Quote:Oh got it - so it's only legitimate if it agrees with your political views, I forgot how that is how science works.

Nope it's legitimate if it isn't a partisan advocacy group. It's got nothing to do with agreement or politics

Quote:Golly jee, I sure got the nature of science wrong when I was young - no wonder my naive views of questioning and figuring things out for yourself got us in hot water.

Again nothing to do with that 

Quote:Funny enough, the same people who blacklisted us now pat themselves on the back for having "discovered" 16,000 year old artifacts that "totally revolutionize the understanding of human settlement in the Americas!" that we told them about decades ago.

Nope and who the hell is "us" and this has fuck all to do with my point

Quote:Academics are not scientists, sorry hunny.

Well leave it to you to go on unhinged rant and further establish yourself as a loon


Leave it to White to go unhinged rant about me pointing out his source is clearly biased and politically motivated and I'm sure it was total accident he just happened to pick an organization that agrees with him