(May 22, 2025 at 9:24 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:

(May 22, 2025 at 7:57 pm)TheWhiteMarten Wrote: Or I just don't believe Obama's 2010 change to the definition of "white" to include Hispanics and Latinos - a distinct cultural, linguistic, and ethnic group composed of whites, native Americans, Asians, Africans - is legitimate; instead being a tool that was used to hide the influx of over 25 million (counted) Latinos into my nation over the last 30 years.

Hiding the influx of Hispanic people would probably have been easier if not for the fact that they've had their own specific category on the US Census since 1970, and they don't neatly fit into the "races" question for reasons that, for once, I admit you actually hit the nail on the head.

That said, how were they counted before then? Except for the 1930 Census that recognised "Mexican" as its own category, they were counted as white, largely working under the assumption that, since Spaniards were responsible for colonising Latin America (except for the parts that were colonised by Portugal) in much the same way that the English (and, to a lesser extent, the French) did for America, and since Spaniards and Portuguese people counted as white, so must their descendants. That said, by 1970, they figured out that it was a LOT more complicated and relegated that to its own question.

The influx between 1990-2020 was what needed to be covered; as already demonstrated in this thread, I was told I was "wrong" for what you just acknowledged as accurate and that "whites" in the traditional American history sense make up over 50% rather than 70% of the population.

At least where I grew up the Mexican-American population was largely of Spanish descent rather than Indigenous Mexican - like my ancestors they settled in the area in the mid 1800s due to successive dictators styling themselves in the image of Napoleon and other liberal Aristocratic reformers. They fled here under the reign of Benito Juarez, who committed mass ethnic cleansing against Christians - so if I had to guess, it's because the Mexicans in America before 1970 were largely of that Spanish stock fleeing political persecution and we've since been more exposed to the modern Latinos in America long enough that people care what that even means. 

I don't mind looking up those demographics when I get the chance to see if that is the case, but I am more concerned with how it has shifted political meaning in the last few decades.

Quote:I ask because I've found it very frequent that people cannot actually define what a Nazi is.

Nah you ask to play games and nothing else 

Quote:The deflection seems telling.

No deflection just stating a fact

He writes many words but says nothing

Poor Marty feels unsafe. Would you like a hug?

I get the feeling that Marty thinks he is a superior kind of Hispanic. Guess he can pass.

(May 22, 2025 at 10:21 pm)TheWhiteMarten Wrote:

(May 22, 2025 at 9:24 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Hiding the influx of Hispanic people would probably have been easier if not for the fact that they've had their own specific category on the US Census since 1970, and they don't neatly fit into the "races" question for reasons that, for once, I admit you actually hit the nail on the head.

That said, how were they counted before then? Except for the 1930 Census that recognised "Mexican" as its own category, they were counted as white, largely working under the assumption that, since Spaniards were responsible for colonising Latin America (except for the parts that were colonised by Portugal) in much the same way that the English (and, to a lesser extent, the French) did for America, and since Spaniards and Portuguese people counted as white, so must their descendants. That said, by 1970, they figured out that it was a LOT more complicated and relegated that to its own question.

The influx between 1990-2020 was what needed to be covered; as already demonstrated in this thread, I was told I was "wrong" for what you just acknowledged as accurate and that "whites" in the traditional American history sense make up over 50% rather than 70% of the population.

At least where I grew up the Mexican-American population was largely of Spanish descent rather than Indigenous Mexican - like my ancestors they settled in the area in the mid 1800s due to successive dictators styling themselves in the image of Napoleon and other liberal Aristocratic reformers. They fled here under the reign of Benito Juarez, who committed mass ethnic cleansing against Christians - so if I had to guess, it's because the Mexicans in America before 1970 were largely of that Spanish stock fleeing political persecution and we've since been more exposed to the modern Latinos in America long enough that people care what that even means. 

I don't mind looking up those demographics when I get the chance to see if that is the case, but I am more concerned with how it has shifted political meaning in the last few decades.

Also worth noting, the percent of Latinos identifying as white in 2000 was about 48%, and in the 2010 census, it was only up to 52.8%. Not much of an increase. And in 2020, it plummeted down to about 20%. And it's not because a bunch of Indigenous Mexicans came flooding in. It's because more and more Hispanic people are seeing the complexities of their ethnicities.

Sounds terrifying Marten. I'd hate to live in whatever post apocalyptic shithole you call home.

(May 22, 2025 at 11:06 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:

(May 22, 2025 at 10:21 pm)TheWhiteMarten Wrote: The influx between 1990-2020 was what needed to be covered; as already demonstrated in this thread, I was told I was "wrong" for what you just acknowledged as accurate and that "whites" in the traditional American history sense make up over 50% rather than 70% of the population.

At least where I grew up the Mexican-American population was largely of Spanish descent rather than Indigenous Mexican - like my ancestors they settled in the area in the mid 1800s due to successive dictators styling themselves in the image of Napoleon and other liberal Aristocratic reformers. They fled here under the reign of Benito Juarez, who committed mass ethnic cleansing against Christians - so if I had to guess, it's because the Mexicans in America before 1970 were largely of that Spanish stock fleeing political persecution and we've since been more exposed to the modern Latinos in America long enough that people care what that even means. 

I don't mind looking up those demographics when I get the chance to see if that is the case, but I am more concerned with how it has shifted political meaning in the last few decades.

Also worth noting, the percent of Latinos identifying as white in 2000 was about 48%, and in the 2010 census, it was only up to 52.8%. Not much of an increase. And in 2020, it plummeted down to about 20%. And it's not because a bunch of Indigenous Mexicans came flooding in. It's because more and more Hispanic people are seeing the complexities of their ethnicities.

Right; I have no problem with the Latino population identifying with white if that's what their primary cultural identifier is and don't think there would be much change - rather it's the fact that "white, non-Hispanic" is dismissed as it's own unique category and lost in the numbers by design when even the census itself clearly represents it.

Latin America remains incredibly socially segregated, and a lot of that social segregation still remains along ethnic lines, so I really think the option of "white" or "Latino" would be the most inclusive way to ensure both cultures are not inadvertently erased as unique entities.

(May 22, 2025 at 10:39 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: I get the feeling that Marty thinks he is a superior kind of Hispanic.  Guess he can pass.

Superior to who - or maybe rather, superior how?

As individuals - yeah, there are plenty of people I identify as superior to, because I objectively am.

There are probably 50x as many people I identify as inferior to as an individual, because I objectively am.

As an ethnic group? No, that's fucking dumb dude.

(May 22, 2025 at 10:32 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: Poor Marty feels unsafe. Would you like a hug?

Interesting.

Any particular reason you are avoiding the question?