(June 22, 2025 at 6:40 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: Where I used to live we had a lot of Polish people, some people grumbled, but as far as was concerned it made a dull shopping trip more interesting hearing a different language being spoken  

Like every country, we have our share of paranoid dimwits. Just because someone is speaking Te Reo in your presence doesn’t mean they’re talking about YOU. You’re not that important.

Boru

(June 20, 2025 at 10:33 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: Even in my country (Turkey) there are now jobs that local ethnic groups are simply not willing to do. In the 2000’s or even in the first half of the 2010’s it was possible to get domestic aid at affordable prices. You would just ask your friend and/or neighbor and would know someone who knows someone who would come and work in your house some 7-8 hours and be happy to do so (at least in this neighborhood).

In my limited experience, employment has a lot to do with how immigration works out. Immigrants who come for employment and seriously keep their jobs aren't the ones causing problems. People who immigrate without a job waiting, or who are denied the opportunity to keep working, are more likely to end up as an issue. 

I visited Dodge City, Kansas, several times, because I knew a guy who lived there. The main employers in Dodge City are still slaughterhouses, which employ a lot of people at exactly the kind of job that white locals would rather not do. Bloody, dangerous, unpleasant work. This means that a large percentage of the population is new to the country -- mostly from Mexico and Vietnam. But after the dad establishes himself and does the unpleasant work, the second generation tends to do well. If the problems associated with immigrants (like gang activity) are particularly bad there I never heard about it. 

This is in contrast to my old hometown in Kansas, which has no major employer like this. It attracts very few immigrants. This means it is still nearly all white, and has no issues with immigrants, but is slowly dying. The downtown is mostly empty, and everything looks much more shabby than when I was a kid. People drive to Wichita for shopping or movies or anything.

So Dodge is better off economically and is more fun to hang out in, and it's thanks to the immigration. 

(There was a funny case where the big popular steak house went out of business for a while, but a guy from Vietnam had saved up enough from the slaughterhouse to buy it and put it back in business. When he redecorated he wanted to play up the cowboy associations, so he ordered what he thought were big sheriff's badges and put them up on the outside. This caused some confusion, as they were actually large Stars of David.) 

Here in Japan immigration is an ongoing debate. The aging population means that the country needs more workers if it wants to maintain its current economy, but there is resistance. People will say things that come across as racist, though it is less about hating brown people and more about a fear of losing community harmony. As you know, keeping "wa" among neighbors is extremely important here, and there is a lot of concern that new people won't know the rules, which are often unwritten or unofficial, but are nevertheless taken extremely seriously. 

I can't oppose it when people move to Japan to have a better life, because that's what I did. Of course I had an advantage, being a white American and therefore more acceptable and employable. But I have experienced discrimination -- minor compared to many others, but when it happens to you it's VERY angry-making. When you can't rent a house and the owner says "we feel you'd be more comfortable with people of your own kind," it's no fun. But it's an education for someone as privileged as I am, since darker-skinned people face that kind of thing every day.

Immigrants aren't the ones causing problems. Full stop.

(June 22, 2025 at 7:04 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(June 22, 2025 at 6:40 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: Where I used to live we had a lot of Polish people, some people grumbled, but as far as was concerned it made a dull shopping trip more interesting hearing a different language being spoken  

Like every country, we have our share of paranoid dimwits. Just because someone is speaking Te Reo in your presence doesn’t mean they’re talking about YOU. You’re not that important.

Boru

No, no... I am important, they just don't know it (yet!)

Grand Nudger:
 
I agree with that too
 
Deesse:
 
Sorry I wanted to add that in comparison only 2,2% of Japan’s population are of foreign origin.
 
“It is not the poor people in Germany who are wary of foreigners, but people in Eastern Germany predominantly, that's why they are voting for AfD.. many of the poor people ARE foreigners.”
 
- Yes I am aware of this event too. But you can compare this with France (Or Poland, or even England). When a group of population arrives who is ready to do jobs for less money this will usually affect more popular, less educated classes. So the populist AfD approach is not entirely wrong at its core.
 
   I believe in some sort of balance. As in the example I gave. With or without Moldovan women, local household-aids are not willing to work like they used too. On a larger scale you can compare this to Mexican workers coming to cities like Detroit in the US in the 1950’s to work in the automobile industry.
 
Yet (as Grand Nudger pointed out) when the issue is greed (Capitalist willing to take in foreigners just to be able to pay them less) this becomes a serious problem.
 
Also, we cannot do what Charlie Boy has said. We are not that evolved as a specie. Not at this point of history. What you are suggesting looks a lot like climate migration that are being predicted to happen in the second part of this century. If everyone is going to migrate to the global north, why don’t we just sink the rest of the world into the sea?
 
On Brain Drain: You know during Nazi Germany many German scientists and artists migrated here. I know it as an archaeologist because these were the teachers who raised the later prominent Turkish archaeologists like Ekrem Akurgal etc. And starting in the 70’s People fleeing from Saddam or the IRI also migrated here as doctors, engineers etc. because their own country became unlivable. Since the AK Party came to power in 2002 the opposite is happening and Germany is not the only destination. Some people are creating lives in the US and Canada while some important actors and writers (Like Aslı Erdogan) etc. are migrating to the UK or to Germany. Who doesn’t want more educated / skilled people?
What you are describing is also true. Most people are lazy. I know people living in Germany since 4 generation and still they are dressed in headscarves and are practicing arranged marriages. Most of them (as you said) are more or less integrated now despite not being in the best career positions. But there are very successful people too (like Fatih Akin for instance). Some groups (mostly Indians and other Asian ethnic groups) are better in this integration issue than others. Mostly because they are more inclined to self-sacrifice and hard work than other etnic groups (like people from the Middle-east) I can grant you that
 
Desse23 (Second Post): No I meant what you just said. I only said that this is not good for us in the short and long term.
Ex: There are now vacant places in some Hospitals (especially in the East of the country). Successful people usually love their receptive countries and are willing to stay there unless they really have to. Since the AK Party came to power, doctors are even subjected to physical violence. So some of them are just leaving because they cannot stand this whole climate of fear. That’s what I said.
 
“When talking about ethnicity (in Germany) you have to understand one important distinction:
German citizens with a foreign background and Foreigners (who are NOT german citizens) should not be mixed up. 75% of all people in Germany are ethnic Germans. 25% obviously arent. Half of those 25% are "foreigners" without citizenship and the other half do have Germany citizenship.
By the way, the term "migration background" has a pretty clear definition in official german statistics:”
 
Ok
 
On AfD:
I agree with that too.
 
(Sorry for answering this late, I don’t always have the time to keep up will all the posts I am posting )