(October 18, 2026 at 11:40 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: The messiah ....

Even better. Nowhere does the original hebrew text speak of the messiah, only of a messiah. A messiah is an anointed one, like Cyrus the Great.

Claims for prophecy involve three distinct claims:

1) That something was accurately predicted. 
2) That this prediction happened exactly as described. 
3) That it can't be explained, and thus involves  divine intervention. 

1) They're never accurate, and always sufficiently vague to leave plenty of room for doubt.
2) This is never demonstrated beyond a bare claim. 
3) Even if they could establish 1 and 2, 3 involves an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy.

(October 18, 2026 at 2:55 pm)Sheldon Wrote: Claims for prophecy involve three distinct claims:

1) That something was accurately predicted. 
2) That this prediction happened exactly as described. 
3) That it can't be explained, and thus involves  divine intervention. 

1) They're never accurate, and always sufficiently vague to leave plenty of room for doubt.
2) This is never demonstrated beyond a bare claim. 
3) Even if they could establish 1 and 2, 3 involves an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy.

If you word your prophecies broadly enough, you can claim all of them as fulfilled. Here’s mine:

Within six months, an event will occur that will cause a great many people a great deal of distress. This event will take place in a country whose name contains at least two vowels (dodged a bullet, Chad).

Boru

(October 18, 2026 at 3:01 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(October 18, 2026 at 2:55 pm)Sheldon Wrote: Claims for prophecy involve three distinct claims:

1) That something was accurately predicted. 
2) That this prediction happened exactly as described. 
3) That it can't be explained, and thus involves  divine intervention. 

1) They're never accurate, and always sufficiently vague to leave plenty of room for doubt.
2) This is never demonstrated beyond a bare claim. 
3) Even if they could establish 1 and 2, 3 involves an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy.

If you word your prophecies broadly enough, you can claim all of them as fulfilled. Here’s mine:

Within six months, an event will occur that will cause a great many people a great deal of distress. This event will take place in a country whose name contains at least two vowels (dodged a bullet, Chad).

Boru

And, if a great catastrophe befalls chad, the faithful will ignore the two vowel faux pas and claim the prophecy fit exactly.

Or just some guy named Chad. Like he gets the clap, and spreads it.

(October 18, 2026 at 3:01 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(October 18, 2026 at 2:55 pm)Sheldon Wrote: Claims for prophecy involve three distinct claims:

1) That something was accurately predicted. 
2) That this prediction happened exactly as described. 
3) That it can't be explained, and thus involves  divine intervention. 

1) They're never accurate, and always sufficiently vague to leave plenty of room for doubt.
2) This is never demonstrated beyond a bare claim. 
3) Even if they could establish 1 and 2, 3 involves an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy.

If you word your prophecies broadly enough, you can claim all of them as fulfilled. Here’s mine:

Within six months, an event will occur that will cause a great many people a great deal of distress. This event will take place in a country whose name contains at least two vowels (dodged a bullet, Chad).

Boru

You can make them very specific, and even "seemingly" defying massive odds, for example someone will win the UK lottery this month, and it will be a man and he will be married. 

Most apologists I've encountered don't seem to understand the difference between probable and possible, let alone how to calculate probability. Very few seem to understand that possibility has distinct category definitions, some of which negate some of their claims. For example a global flood is both nomologically and objectively impossible, according to the established laws of physics, geology, and hydrology.

Now is supernatural magic possible, I'd say the most you could say is that it is epistemically possible, which really tells us nothing about whether it actually can / has happened. Yet I have seen religious apologists claim things are the most plausible explanation, when in fact  they are only epistemically possible, the lowest bar of possibility.

(October 18, 2026 at 3:01 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(October 18, 2026 at 2:55 pm)Sheldon Wrote: Claims for prophecy involve three distinct claims:

1) That something was accurately predicted. 
2) That this prediction happened exactly as described. 
3) That it can't be explained, and thus involves  divine intervention. 

1) They're never accurate, and always sufficiently vague to leave plenty of room for doubt.
2) This is never demonstrated beyond a bare claim. 
3) Even if they could establish 1 and 2, 3 involves an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy.

If you word your prophecies broadly enough, you can claim all of them as fulfilled. Here’s mine:

Within six months, an event will occur that will cause a great many people a great deal of distress. This event will take place in a country whose name contains at least two vowels (dodged a bullet, Chad).

Boru

Wow, you're a prophet.

Be careful, the non-believers will nail you to a cross.

(October 19, 2026 at 3:38 am)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(October 18, 2026 at 3:01 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If you word your prophecies broadly enough, you can claim all of them as fulfilled. Here’s mine:

Within six months, an event will occur that will cause a great many people a great deal of distress. This event will take place in a country whose name contains at least two vowels (dodged a bullet, Chad).

Boru

Wow, you're a prophet.

Be careful, the non-believers will nail you to a cross.

Will I have to pay extra for that?

Boru

(October 19, 2026 at 3:54 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(October 19, 2026 at 3:38 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: Wow, you're a prophet.

Be careful, the non-believers will nail you to a cross.

Will I have to pay extra for that?

Boru

Depends who the non-believers are...