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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
Yesterday at 3:48 pm
(This post was last modified: Yesterday at 3:54 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
-and to be clear, moral absolutism is not equivalent to moral realism. Moral absolutism is the idea that no facts of any matter, matter. A pretty classic example being the notion that you should not lie even if telling the truth will bring harm to someone. Hiding fugitives from a murderous government, under moral absolutism, is wrong. Whereas hiding fugitives from a murderous government, under moral realism, is a moral obligation.
As far as pathways to moral objectivism go..if there's no pathway there without a god, there's no pathway there with a god either.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
Yesterday at 3:59 pm
(Yesterday at 3:38 pm)Ravenshire Wrote: (Yesterday at 2:35 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: Why don't you stop with your stupid armchair psychology? We are having a philosophical discussion. Why ruin it with childish nonsense??
"The moral codes we all work under are typically agreed upon codes."
So then in societies where the majority approved of slavery, slavery was morally sound? Answer the question directly without derailing the conversation. Last change before I stop reading your replies. Stick to the topic
According to the morality of that society, they felt their morality was sound. That's how morality works you fucking tool. How you or I or the majority alive today feels about the soundness of their morality is completely irrelevant. Just as future generations feelings about our morality will be completely irrelevant. Every society in every era has had differing, sometimes conflicting morality. A common moral code is what allows a society to function, even if you think their morals stink.
And quit trying to direct the discourse of others with your petty threats. Fucking ignore me if you can't take it. Talk about taking a conversation off topic!
is it sound or not? Don't say according to that society? I know that. I'm asking if it's moral from your perspective just because a whole society approved it.
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
Yesterday at 4:00 pm
(This post was last modified: Yesterday at 4:01 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(Yesterday at 12:35 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: Yes. Do you reject pro-life morality?
OFC, because forced birtherism harms women and does not protect children. Pretty cut and dry - it objectively fails to do what it purports to do and succeeds at harm instead. What moral person who believes in actual rights and wrongs wouldn't reject it?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
Yesterday at 4:03 pm
(Yesterday at 3:44 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (Yesterday at 3:41 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: I haven't mentioned God, so stop derailing the conversation. I'm trying get a pathway for something being wrong without objective morality. You don't seem to understand the implications of saying there's no moral absolutes. It literally means nothing is wrong. You thinking something is wrong, or millions of people thinking something is wrong, or the entire population thinking it's wrong doesn't make it wrong. They could all be wrong. If Hitler conquered the world and convinced every single human being that Jews should be exterminated, that wouldn't mean society is right. Again, you don't seem to understand what objective morality means. It means it is truth regardless of human minds.
You mentioned God in your very first post in this thread, ya numpty.
Didn’t you just tell Nudger not to conflate truth with morality?
Boru Truth as it pertains to reality has nothing to do with truth as it pertains to morality
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
Yesterday at 4:05 pm
(Yesterday at 3:45 pm)Ravenshire Wrote: (Yesterday at 3:41 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: It literally means nothing is wrong.
You think you understand, but you do not. Moral absolutism doesn't define right or wrong any better than moral relativism does. There are no absolute rights or absolute wrongs. Any act you can possibly think of can be considered morally right or morally wrong, depending on the time, the society, the circumstance, and what gawd they pay to.
Then I was right from the start. There is no such thing as right or wrong or evil. You sure took a long route to come around to what I was saying
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
Yesterday at 4:07 pm
(Yesterday at 4:00 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: (Yesterday at 12:35 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: Yes. Do you reject pro-life morality?
OFC, because forced birtherism harms women and does not protect children. Pretty cut and dry - it objectively fails to do what it purports to do and succeeds at harm instead. What moral person who believes in actual rights and wrongs wouldn't reject it?
Is your stance an objective moral truth or just your opinion? Many others disagree.
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
Yesterday at 4:09 pm
Is that what you've been talking about this whole time? Not whether things are or can be objectively right or wrong, but whether moral absolutism is is true with or without a god?
I think moral absolutism is false either way.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
Yesterday at 4:10 pm
(Yesterday at 4:07 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: (Yesterday at 4:00 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: OFC, because forced birtherism harms women and does not protect children. Pretty cut and dry - it objectively fails to do what it purports to do and succeeds at harm instead. What moral person who believes in actual rights and wrongs wouldn't reject it?
Is your stance an objective moral truth or just your opinion? Many others disagree.
We've already been over this. We all have opinions. I just told you why I thought forced birtherism was wrong. Look it up and see if it's true.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
Yesterday at 4:18 pm
(Yesterday at 3:59 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: (Yesterday at 3:38 pm)Ravenshire Wrote: According to the morality of that society, they felt their morality was sound. That's how morality works you fucking tool. How you or I or the majority alive today feels about the soundness of their morality is completely irrelevant. Just as future generations feelings about our morality will be completely irrelevant. Every society in every era has had differing, sometimes conflicting morality. A common moral code is what allows a society to function, even if you think their morals stink.
And quit trying to direct the discourse of others with your petty threats. Fucking ignore me if you can't take it. Talk about taking a conversation off topic!
is it sound or not? Don't say according to that society? I know that. I'm asking if it's moral from your perspective just because a whole society approved it.
That's the whole point you knuckle-dragging buffoon. My opinion of a morality that allows for rape and murder is completely fucking irrelevant. It's the people within those societies who have to either live with that morality, or try to alter it toward their view of better.
Do you even read whole posts, or do you just look for trigger words/phrases you can focus on to help you get to your gotcha moment?
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RE: If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong
Yesterday at 4:22 pm
(Yesterday at 4:05 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: (Yesterday at 3:45 pm)Ravenshire Wrote: You think you understand, but you do not. Moral absolutism doesn't define right or wrong any better than moral relativism does. There are no absolute rights or absolute wrongs. Any act you can possibly think of can be considered morally right or morally wrong, depending on the time, the society, the circumstance, and what gawd they pay to.
Then I was right from the start. There is no such thing as right or wrong or evil. You sure took a long route to come around to what I was saying
Quit reading your interpretation into my words. Of course there is right and wrong. It's built into the moral framework. Even an uneducated ignoramus like yourself should be able to figure that out from the number of times it's been shouted out to you. But, there is no action that you can point to that will always, without fail, be absolutely morally right or absolutely morally wrong. It's all dependent on the circumstances.
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