I think people question "How do I know God exists?" before they question "Do I know God exists?".

As they can't figure how they know God exists, then they ask "do they know God exists". And it seems to follow that if they don't know how they know God exists, that they don't know God exists.

Then they look for evidence. As philosophical arguments are not convincing, the person ends up becoming agnostic. Then they develop a distance from God, have no relationship, and it feels natural to want arguments against God to be sound and valid. The person moves from being agnostic, to that of atheist is the strong sense.

But if we went back to the first step, and the person thought perhaps God gave him knowledge of himself, and that it was properly basic, in the same way knowledge of morality is properly basic, and doesn't need a formal argument or deduction or justification, and it's a warranted belief. Then the person could have really asked himself the next question, "Do I know God exists?".

And here, I moved from the step, how do I know? To "Do I know" without the baggage of "well there is no reason I can think that proves God exists to me, so obviously I don't know" step.

You see without that step, that intuitive knowledge of God is not broken. That link to the divine seems strong.

It's that step that breaks. Then the Atheist having been in distance to God, and been convinced that he never knew God existed, simply believed out of no good reason, will go on finding formal arguments to God unconvincing.

Even if a formal argument is a very strong argument to God, once that "Do I know whether God exists or not" question is turned to no, it will always seem unconvincing. There is a distance to when you don't know God like you know no other. Your disconnected. And formal arguments don't satisfy the soul.

The knowledge of God to others begins to turn to mystic knowledge of the soul. The divine light within in the soul begins to shine, and it becomes more and more evident the soul has origin from the divine.

However the atheist will think all such things are deluded products of the mind, never considering, there is a way to witness the divine.

It's rather sad. I don't think Atheists are evil or less good people because of this. But they miss out on awesome knowledge that is the foundation of the soul's existence and have to life a life in fear of death, with little hope of everlasting life.

Nonsense.

I am of the opinion that people just start reading..it follows from there. None of this existential angst at all

The second question of yours "Do I know god exists" begs the question of only two answers, god or 'not god' and 'not god' is not a category.

I'm not going to 'not have scrambled eggs' I'm going to have Pizza.

cool story bro, but how about we just throw God and all religious deities into the trash can and forget about them? None of this nonsense. It sounds good to me. God and any other deities is just as much nonsense as the tooth fairy. I dont see why I should be wasting time wondering if god is real or not or why am I an atheist when it is clearly God is just another tooth fairy with a huge ego.

(February 14, 2012 at 2:51 am)Cosmic Ape Wrote: The second question of yours "Do I know god exists" begs the question of only two answers, god or 'not god' and 'not god' is not a category.

"Do I know god exists?" has two answers: Yes and No. I don't know how you think "God" or "Not God" is an answer to that question, I mean, just look at it:

Alice: Do you know God exists?
Bob: God.
Alice: ...?

Alice: Do you know God exists?
Bob: Not God.
Alice: ...?

(February 14, 2012 at 3:07 am)Tiberius Wrote:

(February 14, 2012 at 2:51 am)Cosmic Ape Wrote: The second question of yours "Do I know god exists" begs the question of only two answers, god or 'not god' and 'not god' is not a category.

"Do I know god exists?" has two answers: Yes and No. I don't know how you think "God" or "Not God" is an answer to that question, I mean, just look at it:

Alice: Do you know God exists?
Bob: God.
Alice: ...?

Alice: Do you know God exists?
Bob: Not God.
Alice: ...?

That's usually where theists go with this argument of rejecting god instead of not believing in it. The analogy is usually along the lines of "you either believe in god or not a god, those are the only choices"

(February 14, 2012 at 3:05 am)passionatefool Wrote: cool story bro

at least you find it cool

(February 14, 2012 at 3:10 am)Cosmic Ape Wrote: That's usually where theists go with this argument of rejecting god instead of not believing in it. The analogy is usually along the lines of "you either believe in god or not a god, those are the only choices"

1) This wasn't a question about belief, it was about knowledge.

2) What other options are there? You either believe in God or you don't. It's a dichotomy.

(February 14, 2012 at 3:17 am)Tiberius Wrote:

(February 14, 2012 at 3:10 am)Cosmic Ape Wrote: That's usually where theists go with this argument of rejecting god instead of not believing in it. The analogy is usually along the lines of "you either believe in god or not a god, those are the only choices"

1) This wasn't a question about belief, it was about knowledge.

2) What other options are there? You either believe in God or you don't. It's a dichotomy.

1) There is no "knowledge of god"

2) I'm the one saying that there are other god-tales out there and that his question of "do i know god exists" means he hasnt explained which god, presuming upon his god-tale.

(February 14, 2012 at 3:41 am)Cosmic Ape Wrote: 1) There is no "knowledge of god"

2) I'm the one saying that there are other god-tales out there and that his question of "do i know god exists" means he hasnt explained which god, presuming upon his god-tale.

1) Debatable. Some people claim knowledge of God, how do you know there isn't? I'd be wary of making an absolute truth claim such as "there is no knowledge of god". I'm an agnostic, I hold that knowledge of God is unknown or unknowable (to me at least).

2) Yes, but generally speaking when a specific god is not mentioned the word applies to the concept of a deity.