(February 15, 2012 at 10:24 am)Phil Wrote:

(February 15, 2012 at 10:15 am)Koklanas Wrote: In my belief, (I hope by saying that I am not considered preaching)

I do good to my family at my own will. God gave me brain as a tool to decide to do or evil.

God never decides for anyone. Only for punishment. At any moment 'He' can make my life miserable, if he dcides so, I do bad.

As an example, If I can recall history perfectly, during Moses's time , Pharoah was drowned by God. Ocean can never be split by any other being except God.


God does not make anyone to do good or evil. no matter what.

I am not going to stop loving my family. I said so not because God ask me so but God gave me brain as a tool to weigh good or evil in any action that I do.

Assuming I was raised badly by my parents, I might decide the opposite, since human character is highly influenced by how human is raised and what kind of environment human is exposed to.

If you dont believe me, ask Tarzan!

So you do good for your family and it isn't because Allah tells you to so why did you assume atheists must do evil to their families because they don't have your Allah or another god?

I did not say ' must'. I presumed / guessed (not sure what is the right word) Since athiest has nothing to fear since he/she believes no supreme being to punish him. why worry then,

As compared to my belief I can expect reward if I do good or punishment if i do bad

I use the tool (brain) god gave me to decide. I can still choose evil if I want to, it is entirely up to me, and I should expect punishment if I do so.

Let me ask you, if you do evil, woud you expect punishment from the authority at all.? And The big question is, what if you escape conviction forever until you die?

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(February 15, 2012 at 10:31 am)LastPoet Wrote: Koldanas, if Allah told you to murder anyone from your family, would you do it?

Allah would not do such a thing only satan would influence one to do so.
Especially when one get drunk then satan would get inside to influence futher evil. typically, start with getting drunk, then fighting, then kiilling each other finally Satan's mission is accomplished..

(February 15, 2012 at 10:45 am)Koklanas Wrote: As compared to my belief I can expect reward if I do good or punishment if i do bad

I use the tool (brain) god gave me to decide. I can still choose evil if I want to, it is entirely up to me, and I should expect punishment if I do so.

Let me ask you, if you do evil, woud you expect punishment from the authority at all.? And The big question is, what if you escape conviction forever until you die?

So here you say that you do god for reward and avoid evil so you don't get punished. That is exactly opposite of what you said earlier. If that's true then you are amoral (without morals).

If I do something against the law, of course I expect punishment by the police if I am caught. What if I escape conviction, I escape conviction - seems like a fairly simple answer. Only I don't break the law so I have no need to worry about punishment.

Talking about punishment, there are three reasons for punishment (ignoring retribution and restoration). One is to rehabilitate you so when you are introduced back into society you won't do the same again. Two is to protect society from you. Three is prevention (or deterrence). however you think Allah or for Christians Yahweh punishes you after death, which of the reasons I wrote above is the purpose of the punishment? There is no reason for any punishment after death nor is there a hell (if that is what one believes) unless one is willing to say Allah (or Yahweh) punishes people for his own amusement.

(February 14, 2012 at 12:31 pm)Koklanas Wrote: or may be why there is a neccessity to get married at all? when no law will be imposed on you for not getting married? including God's law. since no such entity in Athiest's mind.

anyone out there wishes to share any thought on this,,, to me getting married is only for those who has a religion since every religion's belief has rule and regulation on marriage. Not so sure about athiest, if it has a set of rules for the follower/believer to comply to.

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(February 14, 2012 at 12:07 pm)5thHorseman Wrote: 'Knowing there are people with the same sex getting married is even more laughable'

Why you jealous you can't out yourself as a bum bandit in your Asian backwater country for fear of persecution?

We dont fear prosecution, we fear punishment from the supreme being if we escape any prosecution during our lifetime. If the is no Supreme Being

we dont fear at all, all i need to do is ,, just try hard escaping conviction from the authority!

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(February 15, 2012 at 11:01 am)Phil Wrote:

(February 15, 2012 at 10:45 am)Koklanas Wrote: As compared to my belief I can expect reward if I do good or punishment if i do bad

I use the tool (brain) god gave me to decide. I can still choose evil if I want to, it is entirely up to me, and I should expect punishment if I do so.

Let me ask you, if you do evil, woud you expect punishment from the authority at all.? And The big question is, what if you escape conviction forever until you die?

So here you say that you do god for reward and avoid evil so you don't get punished. That is exactly opposite of what you said earlier. If that's true then you are amoral (without morals).

If I do something against the law, of course I expect punishment by the police if I am caught. What if I escape conviction, I escape conviction - seems like a fairly simple answer. Only I don't break the law so I have no need to worry about punishment.

Talking about punishment, there are three reasons for punishment (ignoring retribution and restoration). One is to rehabilitate you so when you are introduced back into society you won't do the same again. Two is to protect society from you. Three is prevention (or deterrence). however you think Allah or for Christians Yahweh punishes you after death, which of the reasons I wrote above is the purpose of the punishment? There is no reason for any punishment after death nor is there a hell (if that is what one believes) unless one is willing to say Allah (or Yahweh) punishes people for his own amusement.

,.....

I am not talking about beating the red traffic light, I am talking about killing the innocent, and escape conviction during your lifetime. That innocent victim will no get any justice.

Justice is something that is a 'must happen' thing. either materialize on earth or the Hereafter.

it must be balance! inbalance is against the nature/logic

........

There is such a thing called 'repentence' in all 3 Abrahamic religion. Jewish, Christian and Islam ( religion that stresses oneness of God).
Those who repent falls under rehabilitation category.
Prophet Adam was forgiven once, when he repented and asked forgivenes from God for eating the forbiden fruit.

Those 3 religions also have deterance sentence mentioned in the old tastement, book of torah (jews), Qoran. Once one receives this deterent sentence one's sin will be forgiven by God. No need to worry when one dies. perfectly clean slate again. The sentence normally involves canning.

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[/quote]

So here you say that you do god for reward and avoid evil so you don't get punished. That is exactly opposite of what you said earlier. If that's true then you are amoral (without morals).

[/quote]

Maybe what I wrote (writed) earlier was as as result of my poor english. and my lousy tablet and IE7 software.

But I meant (meaned) the above.

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(February 15, 2012 at 11:02 am)Koklanas Wrote:

(February 14, 2012 at 12:31 pm)Koklanas Wrote: or may be why there is a neccessity to get married at all? when no law will be imposed on you for not getting married? including God's law. since no such entity in Athiest's mind.

anyone out there wishes to share any thought on this,,, to me getting married is only for those who has a religion since every religion's belief has rule and regulation on marriage. Not so sure about athiest, if it has a set of rules for the follower/believer to comply to.

---

(February 14, 2012 at 12:07 pm)5thHorseman Wrote: 'Knowing there are people with the same sex getting married is even more laughable'

Why you jealous you can't out yourself as a bum bandit in your Asian backwater country for fear of persecution?

We dont fear prosecution, we fear punishment from the supreme being if we escape any prosecution during our lifetime. If the is no Supreme Being

we dont fear at all, all i need to do is ,, just try hard escaping conviction from the authority!

---

(February 15, 2012 at 11:01 am)Phil Wrote:

(February 15, 2012 at 10:45 am)Koklanas Wrote: As compared to my belief I can expect reward if I do good or punishment if i do bad

I use the tool (brain) god gave me to decide. I can still choose evil if I want to, it is entirely up to me, and I should expect punishment if I do so.

Let me ask you, if you do evil, woud you expect punishment from the authority at all.? And The big question is, what if you escape conviction forever until you die?

So here you say that you do god for reward and avoid evil so you don't get punished. That is exactly opposite of what you said earlier. If that's true then you are amoral (without morals).

If I do something against the law, of course I expect punishment by the police if I am caught. What if I escape conviction, I escape conviction - seems like a fairly simple answer. Only I don't break the law so I have no need to worry about punishment.

Talking about punishment, there are three reasons for punishment (ignoring retribution and restoration). One is to rehabilitate you so when you are introduced back into society you won't do the same again. Two is to protect society from you. Three is prevention (or deterrence). however you think Allah or for Christians Yahweh punishes you after death, which of the reasons I wrote above is the purpose of the punishment? There is no reason for any punishment after death nor is there a hell (if that is what one believes) unless one is willing to say Allah (or Yahweh) punishes people for his own amusement.

,.....

I am not talking about beating the red traffic light, I am talking about killing the innocent, and escape conviction during your lifetime. That innocent victim will no get any justice.

Justice is something that is a 'must happen' thing. either materialize on earth or the Hereafter.

it must be balance! inbalance is against the nature/logic

........

There is such a thing called 'repentence' in all 3 Abrahamic religion. Jewish, Christian and Islam ( religion that stresses oneness of God).
Those who repent falls under rehabilitation category.
Prophet Adam was forgiven once, when he repented and asked forgivenes from God for eating the forbiden fruit.

Those 3 religions also have deterance sentence mentioned in the old tastement, book of torah (jews), Qoran. Once one receives this deterent sentence one's sin will be forgiven by God. No need to worry when one dies. perfectly clean slate again. The sentence normally involves canning.

---

So here you say that you do god for reward and avoid evil so you don't get punished. That is exactly opposite of what you said earlier. If that's true then you are amoral (without morals).

[/quote]

Maybe what I wrote (writed) earlier was as as result of my poor english. and my lousy tablet and IE7 software.

But I meant (meaned) the above.


[/quote]


How come my quotes broke (breaked) up . How you edit it to make the quote short?

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(February 14, 2012 at 11:56 am)LastPoet Wrote: ARGUMENTUM AD NATIONALITY:
1- English do not have word for god
2- My country has a special word for god
3- Therefore, god exists.


Seriously, this guy must be a poe.

Just want to stress my point God is either male nor female.

(February 14, 2012 at 11:56 am)Phil Wrote:

(February 14, 2012 at 11:53 am)Koklanas Wrote: English does not even have a word to refer to God.

Sure it does. You just used it.

I meant to refer to the sex of god. He or she is not rigt to use

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it's 1200 am 16th Feb. I ll see you guys tommorow. Great talking to an athiest.

(February 15, 2012 at 11:02 am)Koklanas Wrote: There is such a thing called 'repentence' in all 3 Abrahamic religion. Jewish, Christian and Islam ( religion that stresses oneness of God).
Those who repent falls under rehabilitation category.
Prophet Adam was forgiven once, when he repented and asked forgivenes from God for eating the forbiden fruit.

Those 3 religions also have deterance sentence mentioned in the old tastement, book of torah (jews), Qoran. Once one receives this deterent sentence one's sin will be forgiven by God. No need to worry when one dies. perfectly clean slate again. The sentence normally involves canning.

And what does this have to do with punishment after death. Please try answering what I wrote or don't even bother replying.

It doesn't matter how many people believe these things Kok, or if three different religious traditions describe these things. I thought we were past this? The beliefs of others do not meet my standards for evidence, no matter how many, no matter how well agreed upon.

Atheists get married for a number of reasons, I'm sure. One of which is likely to be love. Why would you imagine that atheists are any different than anyone else in this regard?

"Justice" "balance" and "logic" all in one sentence? You're missing an important one though, "demonstration".

koklanas Wrote:Justice is something that is a 'must happen' thing. either materialize on earth or the Hereafter.

This is just you imposing your wants and needs on the cosmos, and the cosmos is under no obligation to oblige you.

(February 15, 2012 at 10:33 am)Koklanas Wrote: Aging is the only desease that is incurable.

For now.

(February 15, 2012 at 2:48 pm)genkaus Wrote:

(February 15, 2012 at 10:33 am)Koklanas Wrote: Aging is the only desease that is incurable.

For now.

I see where you're coming from - but the original statement that aging is the only disease which is incurable is demonstrably false to begin with.

1. Aging isn't a disease.
2. There are plenty of diseases which aren't curable, but are treatable.

(February 15, 2012 at 11:02 am)Koklanas Wrote: \or may be why there is a neccessity to get married at all? when no law will be imposed on you for not getting married? including God's law. since no such entity in Athiest's mind.

anyone out there wishes to share any thought on this,,, to me getting married is only for those who has a religion since every religion's belief has rule and regulation on marriage. Not so sure about athiest, if it has a set of rules for the follower/believer to comply to.

There is still the law of the country. Married people are afforded advantages that single people are not, such as tax exmption from inheritance, joint property, default power of attorney etc.

Further, marriage is a social contract. And all contracts are better when clearly defined and put into writing since then they are legally enforceable.

You may also do it to prove your love, since marriage is often thought of as a lifelong commitment. Personally, I don't believe that getting married "proves" anything.

See, there are lots of reasons for atheists to get married.

(February 15, 2012 at 11:02 am)Koklanas Wrote: Justice is something that is a 'must happen' thing. either materialize on earth or the Hereafter.

it must be balance! inbalance is against the nature/logic

Why? Why "must" justice happen? Why "must" balance happen? Neither imbalance nor injustice is against nature since we see it in religion all the time.