Belief does not require any specific level of intelligence, high or low. Beliefs greatest achievement is that it can appeal to anyone, of any level of intelligence. It has a hook for every persuasion. I could argue that it takes a very sturdy mind indeed to hold a belief in the face of evidence to the contrary. You have to be smart enough to be able to fool yourself, and smart enough to be able to do so without realizing that you have done so. Apparently, it only takes an average level of intelligence to do this. So, I bet you could do it even better if you were of above average intelligence. Wouldn't that force us to at least consider the possibility that some fundies might be the smartest people we've ever met? On the other end of the scale, some people get these answers, their instruction manual for belief, from others. Indoctrination. Even those processes have originators. Human beings are entirely capable of being incredibly smart, while being simultaneously incredibly wrong, or incredibly dull, but spot on right.

As someone said about PETA beliefs, "That's a statement I can only ascribe to having a higher education."

(March 12, 2012 at 11:14 am)Rhythm Wrote: Belief does not require any specific level of intelligence, high or low. Beliefs greatest achievement is that it can appeal to anyone, of any level of intelligence. It has a hook for every persuasion. I could argue that it takes a very sturdy mind indeed to hold a belief in the face of evidence to the contrary.

What in your opinion is the difference between the sort of "sturdiness" that allows one to stare facts in the face and deny it to oneself, and stark raving insensibility?

(March 12, 2012 at 11:14 am)Rhythm Wrote: You have to be smart enough to be able to fool yourself, and smart enough to be able to do so without realizing that you have done so. Apparently, it only takes an average level of intelligence to do this. So, I bet you could do it even better if you were of above average intelligence.

No, you might need to carry out a large number of flawed brain activities to fool yourself. But being smart is not merely a count of the number of brain activities you carry out, it is the capacity for the brain to organize its activities to produce sound final results.

So a person who consistently fools himself with the cleverest tricks is still a total idiot.

Not very much Chuck, you know I'm not a big fan teh believers...lol. Still, their thought processes and relative levels of intelligence are more similar to your own or my own than they are different.

Flawed brain activities..lol. Not bugs Chuck, features. They may not always produce the results we want, and those results may not always be accurate with respect to reality. However, given the right circumstances these things have been shown to be useful to us. They've outlived their usefulness, we have wonderful insights as to why they were once useful (and why they are now not), but...that doesn't mean that this is going to change the way we are wired.

Agreed, the genius and the fool are two sides of the same coin. Two points on a circle, with very little between them.

Was Newton a total idiot?

(March 12, 2012 at 11:25 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: Was Newton a total idiot?

For his era, no. He certainly didn't fool himself where gravity and calculus was concerned. Were he to be today like he was, then yes.

(March 12, 2012 at 11:25 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: Was Newton a total idiot?

Huey P?

Really? That brain, with the knowledge we have now, simply because he still believed in God? That's harsh, Chuck.

(March 12, 2012 at 11:28 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: Really? That brain, with the knowledge we have now, simply because he still believed in God? That's harsh, Chuck.

If he was alive today, do you think he would believe in god? And if so, would his belief be based on evidence?

(March 12, 2012 at 11:28 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: Really? That brain, with the knowledge we have now, simply because he still believed in God? That's harsh, Chuck.

No, that would only make him an idiot sometimes. But if he continues to believe gravity travels instantly and something had to give the planets a shove, then he would be an idiot fulltime.