I had this discussion elsewhere a while ago, and was universally panned! Perhaps bringing it up in early December was poor timing…

Santa Claus, Old Saint Nic, (or Father Christmas as he is called here) – Do we need him, or more accurately, do kids need him?

We have 3 children, two who are 13 and one little boy who was 4 in December, so this really was the first year when the subject of Father Christmas occurred to us again, now that he is in nursery and surrounded by other children who are exposed to it.

With both of the older kids we did the usual, traditional thing and went along with it all – Put out stockings(sacks actually), mince pies and sherry(ok, more like a Krispy Kreme donut and a can of Stella) and the kids got their presents from Father C on Christmas morning.

As they got older we lessened the santa thing and gave them (smaller)sack presents from him, and other presents from us, the parents.

The moment it occurred to me was when our daughter asked for something for Christmas, but we said that we couldn’t afford it… “okay, I’ll just ask Father Christmas then” was her reply.

And I think the main thing that bugs me about it is that it feels almost like a precursor to the whole Christian way of thinking: Be good and you will get presents, be bad and you won’t get any – This is a mode of bribery thinking that I really despise, and I know that parents use this as a weapon to threaten kids into behaving well from about September onwards which again I really don’t like the idea of.

Also when we’re working our arses off to pay for these gifts, but the kids think they just magically produced by elves in the north pole, I feel like it is taking away from the parents to give to a figment of the imagination.


When I suggested this most people were absolutely horrified, saying that we were taking away the magic of childhood… I countered that he has plenty of magic and make believe in his life, but he is aware that it is imaginary(as well as any 4 year old truly knows anything)

It’s telling them that the make believe is actually true that I don’t like, only to pull that rug from under them again in a few years…

So, against popular opinion we decided to forgoe it completely – Never mentioned it and gave him his presents that were from his friends and family. We had a lovely Christmas, free from any religious or North Pole-ious connotations, and all was fine.

But, on two occasions grandparents asked him what father Christmas had brought for him, to which he replied ‘nothing’, and I felt a real pang of guilt.

On reflection we have now decided to partially go along with it next year, purely for traditional reasons and so he doesn’t miss out on things that his friends will do.

We’re going to give him a sack with small presents, just from Father Xmas and that’s it – If he asks about it, I think we’ll tell him that it’s just a special Christmas story that people like at that time of year, just like the nativity, and we want to instead instill in him the real importance of that time of year – That it’s a time for family, one of the only times of the year when everyone is all together, and that this is magical in itself.


So… Are we atheists gone wrong, are we taking it too far? What do you/did you/will you tell your children, and to what degree will you allow myth to be represented as reality?

I always made sure that the children understood that "Santa Claus" Father Christmas" Old St Nick" etc...have SO MANY children to give to that they can only give you something small. That way IF I could not afford what the child desired for Xmas and the Family could not come to the party then they could not have it. At around 13 + the famil would start to give $20 - $50 and THAT was when the children would SAVE their xmas $$ and go an buy what they wanted.

Just a thought.

We went down the road that family and friends buy presents and give them to Santa to deliver on christmas day.

I did not want my child running about the playground telling all the others that Santa isn't real at 4 and 5 years old. Sure to achieve angry knocks on our door.

Whist I agree Santa is not necessary, and the holiday is far better served by being a celebration of family and love (and presents and sweets) without the claptrap. Without the Santa belief, we felt they would be unable to appreciate the traditions the other children were enjoying.

I'm not comfortable with it either for the same reasons thou.

Chuff -

Jew kids grow up just fine without Santa.

So do pretty much every other non-Christian kid. That's all the adults need to know if they ask.

The only part that made me uncomfortable when I was a child was when someone asked, "Don't you miss Christmas?" I never celebrated it you twit, how can I miss it?

More importantly, do *we* need him?
I'm certainly bored of seeing a guy in santa(Noel Baba in Turkey) costume during new years eve in Turkey.
We as a people never revered him as a saint, that we should have a character inspired by him during new years eve, running around. But cultural imperialism has brought the fat, red man into our culture, even though we have suitable alternatives of our own, Ata Korkud, for example, who is a staple of Nouruz celebrations in many other Turkic countries. Although, he doesn't give out presents, he tells tales, and gives good advice.
I'll talk about him to my kids, instead of the fat santa claus.

I never believed in the red baron myself. I took great pleasure telling other kids that he wasn't real.

I was a rather evil child.

The way I see it, it's a good teaching tool for children to understand Christianity vs. atheism later on in life. Just say to them, "Remember when you realized that Santa Claus wasn't real and it is all a myth? Keep that in mind when Christians tell you about Jesus. God is just Santa for grownups."

(March 22, 2012 at 7:51 am)NoMoreFaith Wrote: We went down the road that family and friends buy presents and give them to Santa to deliver on christmas day.

That sounds like quite a good plan

(March 22, 2012 at 7:51 am)NoMoreFaith Wrote: I'm not comfortable with it either for the same reasons thou.

Glad I'm not alone

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(March 22, 2012 at 8:10 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: Chuff -

Jew kids grow up just fine without Santa.

So do pretty much every other non-Christian kid. That's all the adults need to know if they ask.

The only part that made me uncomfortable when I was a child was when someone asked, "Don't you miss Christmas?" I never celebrated it you twit, how can I miss it?

The real problem I think is peer pressure, and not wanting them to be singled out - I remember the Jehovas Witness kids in school getting a ton of grief - Not quite in the same league, but I think these are the reasons we've now opted for a watered down version instead of our original idea

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(March 22, 2012 at 8:17 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: More importantly, do *we* need him?
I'm certainly bored of seeing a guy in santa(Noel Baba in Turkey) costume during new years eve in Turkey.
We as a people never revered him as a saint, that we should have a character inspired by him during new years eve, running around. But cultural imperialism has brought the fat, red man into our culture, even though we have suitable alternatives of our own, Ata Korkud, for example, who is a staple of Nouruz celebrations in many other Turkic countries. Although, he doesn't give out presents, he tells tales, and gives good advice.
I'll talk about him to my kids, instead of the fat santa claus.

Thanks Mehmet - The guy in the red suit is pretty ubiquitous the world over now, possibly due to movies and coca cola(who changed him from green to red!)

The guys you posted in the pictures look pretty sinister! they would certainly make them behave..

Here in Slovakia we technically have St.Nicolas but we call him...Jesus.
Literally.

My kids don't believe in Santa. We don't celebrate xmas. They do go with their dad to his celebration, but they don't really get into it much. They favor Halloween.