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Wow! It seems to christians that if you are an unbeliever and lead a good and decent life that you are going to hell for eternity. But if you are a rapist or/and child molester all you have to do is say you are sorry and accept an imaginary being and all is good, you're going to heaven. No thanks not for me. Keep your twisted logic to yourself and stop contaminating the world.
Well conducted introspection dispels the dreams and delirium on wich gods feed.
Atheism is not therapy but restored mental health.
-Michel Onfray-
(February 5, 2012 at 5:01 pm)SilverFrog Wrote: Wow! It seems to christians that if you are an unbeliever and lead a good and decent life that you are going to hell for eternity. But if you are a rapist or/and child molester all you have to do is say you are sorry and accept an imaginary being and all is good, you're going to heaven. No thanks not for me. Keep your twisted logic to yourself and stop contaminating the world.
Too many people seem to think that for a rapist or a murderer to repent of his crimes, all he must do is say, "sorry." It's not. How can it be? The man would have to be utterly transformed from within to truly repent. And even if the most thorough examination showed, by all powers known to man, that he had repented, felt remorse, and was a changed man, AND God still detected an evil thought, he would still burn in Hell for eternity. So, it's really not all that easy for the wicked to repent, since God sees into their hearts, and they can hide nothing. How exactly do you turn the core of your being around at the last moment when you've worked hard all your life to be treacherous and evil? What the gospel teaches us is that if you could, if you really could turn yourself around and despise your evil acts and feel sorrow, guilt, and shame, then even if you had been sentenced to death on Earth, you weren't beyond the reach of God's mercy. That's the lesson.
(February 3, 2012 at 3:38 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: But let's say for the sake of argument that works aren't necessary to get to heaven.
What do Christians gain by not helping out the less fortunate? I thought Christians were supposed to display their faith by how they live. If they don't want to give a shit about poor or hungry people, then I don't want to have anything to do with them. They always claim they're supposed to be like Jesus. Jesus healed people, he fed the hungry, and lots of other good stuff, according to their holy book. Yet they think the only thing they have to do is keep kissing his ass and ignore all the people Jesus said to help. I guess that WWJD thing was just a passing fad after all.
This is why I think an atheist who goes through life helping others and constantly being charitable should get an instant ticket to heaven, because they're doing that to better mankind, not because they think it'll get them into the exclusive eternal country club.
Christians do not believe that doing good things will get them into heaven, they understand the belief in Christ is the way. Doing for others is one way christians show God's love for others, christian churches do more for the poor and hurting than you will ever know. By the way why is it you think christians do not help others, is it because we do not believe in works for salvation. Surely you must know works for salvation would not work, tell me how much work would one need to do to get into heaven, who would set the standard of, enough works done, you get in. Works for salvation will lead to bragging and that is not a characteristic of christianity. Works have nothing to do with salvation, works show others who we are. Salvation is about forgiveness of sin, love, repentance and grace, works show we have received it.
No. That is exactly what Catholics believe. Hence all the sin and absolution stuff. Hence Dante and the different levels of Hell corresponding to the sins, different levels of Heaven corresponding to the cardinal virtues , and Purgatory is where people go to be purged of their sin in order to be clean enough to enter heaven. Catholics believe people are saved through works.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." -Friedrich Nietzsche
"All thinking men are atheists." -Ernest Hemmingway
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." -Voltaire
(February 3, 2012 at 3:38 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: But let's say for the sake of argument that works aren't necessary to get to heaven.
What do Christians gain by not helping out the less fortunate? I thought Christians were supposed to display their faith by how they live. If they don't want to give a shit about poor or hungry people, then I don't want to have anything to do with them. They always claim they're supposed to be like Jesus. Jesus healed people, he fed the hungry, and lots of other good stuff, according to their holy book. Yet they think the only thing they have to do is keep kissing his ass and ignore all the people Jesus said to help. I guess that WWJD thing was just a passing fad after all.
This is why I think an atheist who goes through life helping others and constantly being charitable should get an instant ticket to heaven, because they're doing that to better mankind, not because they think it'll get them into the exclusive eternal country club.
Christians do not believe that doing good things will get them into heaven, they understand the belief in Christ is the way. Doing for others is one way christians show God's love for others, christian churches do more for the poor and hurting than you will ever know. By the way why is it you think christians do not help others, is it because we do not believe in works for salvation. Surely you must know works for salvation would not work, tell me how much work would one need to do to get into heaven, who would set the standard of, enough works done, you get in. Works for salvation will lead to bragging and that is not a characteristic of christianity. Works have nothing to do with salvation, works show others who we are. Salvation is about forgiveness of sin, love, repentance and grace, works show we have received it.
No. That is exactly what Catholics believe. Hence all the sin and absolution stuff. Hence Dante and the different levels of Hell corresponding to the sins, different levels of Heaven corresponding to the cardinal virtues , and Purgatory is where people go to be purged of their sin in order to be clean enough to enter heaven. Catholics believe people are saved through works.
You're correct, that is what the Catholic Church promotes, I do not believe all Catholics believe what the Catholic Church sells, at least some of the Catholics I know do not buy into all the things the church sells.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(February 3, 2012 at 3:38 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: But let's say for the sake of argument that works aren't necessary to get to heaven.
What do Christians gain by not helping out the less fortunate? I thought Christians were supposed to display their faith by how they live. If they don't want to give a shit about poor or hungry people, then I don't want to have anything to do with them. They always claim they're supposed to be like Jesus. Jesus healed people, he fed the hungry, and lots of other good stuff, according to their holy book. Yet they think the only thing they have to do is keep kissing his ass and ignore all the people Jesus said to help. I guess that WWJD thing was just a passing fad after all.
This is why I think an atheist who goes through life helping others and constantly being charitable should get an instant ticket to heaven, because they're doing that to better mankind, not because they think it'll get them into the exclusive eternal country club.
Christians do not believe that doing good things will get them into heaven, they understand the belief in Christ is the way. Doing for others is one way christians show God's love for others, christian churches do more for the poor and hurting than you will ever know. By the way why is it you think christians do not help others, is it because we do not believe in works for salvation. Surely you must know works for salvation would not work, tell me how much work would one need to do to get into heaven, who would set the standard of, enough works done, you get in. Works for salvation will lead to bragging and that is not a characteristic of christianity. Works have nothing to do with salvation, works show others who we are. Salvation is about forgiveness of sin, love, repentance and grace, works show we have received it.
No. That is exactly what Catholics believe. Hence all the sin and absolution stuff. Hence Dante and the different levels of Hell corresponding to the sins, different levels of Heaven corresponding to the cardinal virtues , and Purgatory is where people go to be purged of their sin in order to be clean enough to enter heaven. Catholics believe people are saved through works.
You're correct, that is what the Catholic Church promotes, I do not believe all Catholics believe what the Catholic Church sells, at least some of the Catholics I know do not buy into all the things the church sells.
Right. And the Protestant church sells salvation by faith alone. It all depends what you are in the market for. Either way salvation is an appeal to selfishness and seeking the reward of heaven and avoiding the punishments of hell. You bought faith others bought works. Neither have any ultimate truth and are just alternate interpretations of the same mythology.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." -Friedrich Nietzsche
"All thinking men are atheists." -Ernest Hemmingway
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." -Voltaire
(April 4, 2012 at 11:14 pm)Epimethean Wrote: I say, burn the rapists on earth and save the imaginary sky daddy the work which he won't end up doing anyway.
(February 3, 2012 at 3:38 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote:
But let's say for the sake of argument that works aren't necessary to get to heaven.
What do Christians gain by not helping out the less fortunate? I thought Christians were supposed to display their faith by how they live. If they don't want to give a shit about poor or hungry people, then I don't want to have anything to do with them. They always claim they're supposed to be like Jesus. Jesus healed people, he fed the hungry, and lots of other good stuff, according to their holy book. Yet they think the only thing they have to do is keep kissing his ass and ignore all the people Jesus said to help. I guess that WWJD thing was just a passing fad after all.
This is why I think an atheist who goes through life helping others and constantly being charitable should get an instant ticket to heaven, because they're doing that to better mankind, not because they think it'll get them into the exclusive eternal country club.
Christians do not believe that doing good things will get them into heaven, they understand the belief in Christ is the way. Doing for others is one way christians show God's love for others, christian churches do more for the poor and hurting than you will ever know. By the way why is it you think christians do not help others, is it because we do not believe in works for salvation. Surely you must know works for salvation would not work, tell me how much work would one need to do to get into heaven, who would set the standard of, enough works done, you get in. Works for salvation will lead to bragging and that is not a characteristic of christianity. Works have nothing to do with salvation, works show others who we are. Salvation is about forgiveness of sin, love, repentance and grace, works show we have received it.
No. That is exactly what Catholics believe. Hence all the sin and absolution stuff. Hence Dante and the different levels of Hell corresponding to the sins, different levels of Heaven corresponding to the cardinal virtues , and Purgatory is where people go to be purged of their sin in order to be clean enough to enter heaven. Catholics believe people are saved through works.
You're correct, that is what the Catholic Church promotes, I do not believe all Catholics believe what the Catholic Church sells, at least some of the Catholics I know do not buy into all the things the church sells.
Right. And the Protestant church sells salvation by faith alone. It all depends what you are in the market for. Either way salvation is an appeal to selfishness and seeking the reward of heaven and avoiding the punishments of hell. You bought faith others bought works. Neither have any ultimate truth and are just alternate interpretations of the same mythology.
You can be in the market for many things and by into it, this does not mean you haven't bought a forgery. The scriptures are clear that salvation comes by grace from God, meaning salvation is an unmerited gift, which by definition means one can not earn ie. work for their salvation. If one has to work for salvation then faith is dead, simple really. The Protestant Church does not sell salvation, selling means works and works denies faith, not selling, teaching the truth of scripture. Works are to accompany faith after salvation, salvation first then works in faith, simple really.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
Christians do not believe that doing good things will get them into heaven, they understand the belief in Christ is the way. Doing for others is one way christians show God's love for others, christian churches do more for the poor and hurting than you will ever know. By the way why is it you think christians do not help others, is it because we do not believe in works for salvation. Surely you must know works for salvation would not work, tell me how much work would one need to do to get into heaven, who would set the standard of, enough works done, you get in. Works for salvation will lead to bragging and that is not a characteristic of christianity. Works have nothing to do with salvation, works show others who we are. Salvation is about forgiveness of sin, love, repentance and grace, works show we have received it.
No. That is exactly what Catholics believe. Hence all the sin and absolution stuff. Hence Dante and the different levels of Hell corresponding to the sins, different levels of Heaven corresponding to the cardinal virtues , and Purgatory is where people go to be purged of their sin in order to be clean enough to enter heaven. Catholics believe people are saved through works.
You're correct, that is what the Catholic Church promotes, I do not believe all Catholics believe what the Catholic Church sells, at least some of the Catholics I know do not buy into all the things the church sells.
Right. And the Protestant church sells salvation by faith alone. It all depends what you are in the market for. Either way salvation is an appeal to selfishness and seeking the reward of heaven and avoiding the punishments of hell. You bought faith others bought works. Neither have any ultimate truth and are just alternate interpretations of the same mythology.
You can be in the market for many things and by into it, this does not mean you haven't bought a forgery. The scriptures are clear that salvation comes by grace from God, meaning salvation is an unmerited gift, which by definition means one can not earn ie. work for their salvation. If one has to work for salvation then faith is dead, simple really. The Protestant Church does not sell salvation, selling means works and works denies faith, not selling, teaching the truth of scripture. Works are to accompany faith after salvation, salvation first then works in faith, simple really.
So how much did you pay for your version? Seems a lot cheaper. In Catholocism one is actually expected to do something. The Protestant version's focus is simply on "right belief" and the acceptance of the sacrifice of jesus for their sins. SO I would say you got the bargain. Both are certainly defective products but hey at least yours didn't cost you an arm and a leg!
Haha. Everybody can cite scripture to prove whatever it is they want to prove. You just picked Luther's cult as opposed to the Papal cult.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." -Friedrich Nietzsche
"All thinking men are atheists." -Ernest Hemmingway
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." -Voltaire
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