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RE: Why do Athiests require 'proof' that God exists?
May 7, 2012 at 12:50 pm
(May 7, 2012 at 12:45 pm)JesusLover Wrote:
(May 7, 2012 at 12:11 pm)Darwinian Wrote: I do accept that I can never know if God exists or not, just as I employ the same principles with the tooth fairy, Odin, Zeus, Ghosts etc. etc. It's just that I find the complete and utter lack of any evidence, credibility and verisimilitude overwhelming.
Good point. However the tooth fairy is a little woman with wings, not an ineffable, omnipresent being. Therefore we can prove if the tooth fairy (and the other things you mentioned) exists because we can look for little women with wings. We can't look for God.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence therefore you cannot prove that the tooth fairy does not exist.
RE: Why do Athiests require 'proof' that God exists?
May 7, 2012 at 12:54 pm
(May 7, 2012 at 12:45 pm)JesusLover Wrote:
Thanks for your responses everyone, I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this with you.
Firstly I want to clear something up - Descartes "I think therefore I am" doesn't prove 'YOU' exist, it proves 'I' exist. How can 'I' know 'you' think therefore you are!! From my perspective you could be a person in a dream, virtual reality or just an empty headed android.
(May 7, 2012 at 12:16 pm)Shell B Wrote: Why wouldn't I?
If I told you I had a unicorn in my garden I would expect you to ask to see it, or for 'proof'. My point is that the existence of God cannot be proven, due to the nature of what God is, and that when Atheists use the issue of there being no 'proof' for God's existence it is not a valid argument.
(May 7, 2012 at 12:11 pm)Darwinian Wrote: I do accept that I can never know if God exists or not, just as I employ the same principles with the tooth fairy, Odin, Zeus, Ghosts etc. etc. It's just that I find the complete and utter lack of any evidence, credibility and verisimilitude overwhelming.
Good point. However the tooth fairy is a little woman with wings, not an ineffable, omnipresent being. Therefore we can prove if the tooth fairy (and the other things you mentioned) exists because we can look for little women with wings. We can't look for God.
(May 7, 2012 at 12:11 pm)Darwinian Wrote: Oh, and which God are you talking about? All of them or just the one that your where indoctrinated into believing because of the geographical location of your birth and the views of those around you?
For now let's just say all/any of them
(May 7, 2012 at 12:17 pm)Tempus Wrote: Atheism isn't a philosophy or a method, there's no "atheist logic". What you're describing here is solipsism.
Allow me to rephrase this: using the same atheist argument agaisnt the existence of God I can disprove your existence. Therefore the argument is flawed.
Thanks again for the replies everyone!
That's what I thought. Yet another believer crying "Why don't you believe me?", but offering no reason to believe them. Oh well. It's not like I expected anything different this time.
RE: Why do Athiests require 'proof' that God exists?
May 7, 2012 at 12:57 pm
(May 7, 2012 at 12:45 pm)JesusLover Wrote: Firstly I want to clear something up - Descartes "I think therefore I am" doesn't prove 'YOU' exist, it proves 'I' exist. How can 'I' know 'you' think therefore you are!! From my perspective you could be a person in a dream, virtual reality or just an empty headed android.
Welcome to teh internetz, you can never know here who's real or not
But if that is your stance in the real world, I wonder how you get by and how you don't end up as the most egocentric person in the world.
When I was young, there was a god with infinite power protecting me. Is there anyone else who felt that way? And was sure about it? but the first time I fell in love, I was thrown down - or maybe I broke free - and I bade farewell to God and became human. Now I don't have God's protection, and I walk on the ground without wings, but I don't regret this hardship. I want to live as a person. -Arina Tanemura
RE: Why do Athiests require 'proof' that God exists?
May 7, 2012 at 12:59 pm
(May 7, 2012 at 12:46 pm)Tiberius Wrote:
(May 7, 2012 at 12:03 pm)JesusLover Wrote: For example one cannot prove ones own existence
"I think therefore I am" - Rene Descartes, 1637
What I meant was you can't prove your existence to others.
(May 7, 2012 at 12:50 pm)Darwinian Wrote: Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence therefore you cannot prove that the tooth fairy does not exist.
Yes, the tooth fairy could exist somewhere in the universe or in a different dimension. However I'm not trying to disprove the existence of the tooth fairy due to an absence of evidence, I only know I have never seen a little woman with wings.
Atheists are trying to disprove the existence of God due to an absence of evidence, despite the fact that he exists in all things at all times, inside and outside of the universe. He is incomprehensible.
RE: Why do Athiests require 'proof' that God exists?
May 7, 2012 at 1:05 pm
(May 7, 2012 at 1:01 pm)Paul the Human Wrote:
(May 7, 2012 at 12:59 pm)JesusLover Wrote: he exists in all things at all times, inside and outside of the universe. He is incomprehensible.
Can you provide evidence to support, or even a reason to believe, that claim?
I'm going to take a guess & say that no, she can't.
"How is it that a lame man does not annoy us while a lame mind does? Because a lame man recognizes that we are walking straight, while a lame mind says that it is we who are limping." - Pascal
RE: Why do Athiests require 'proof' that God exists?
May 7, 2012 at 1:15 pm
(May 7, 2012 at 1:01 pm)Paul the Human Wrote:
(May 7, 2012 at 12:59 pm)JesusLover Wrote: he exists in all things at all times, inside and outside of the universe. He is incomprehensible.
Can you provide evidence to support, or even a reason to believe, that claim?
Your right, I have no evidence. After all belief in God requires 'faith'. However my point is that the absence of evidence does not disprove God's existence, as many atheists seem to think.
(May 7, 2012 at 1:05 pm)Tobie Wrote: Why do you think that your god is any different to the tooth fairy?
Scientists can assess the possibility of a tiny human with wings collecting teeth existing or not. They can use biology and physics to conclude it's not physically possible for a human mind to exist in a grape sized skull. They can see the zero tooth fairy sightings.
God on the other hand is something which cannot be assessed in reality or theory.
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