(May 20, 2012 at 7:42 am)Welsh cake Wrote: When and where did you learn this?

Interview with a CoE priest who was pro, in error I thought it was the official church position. Apparently lots of CoE priests are in favour, but the church line is against it.

I was wrong, upon further reading, its merely supported by many of the priests, but not the church itself.

(May 21, 2012 at 4:56 am)Ben Davis Wrote:

(May 21, 2012 at 3:21 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Well, civil rights is another thing. I do not oppose the right of people of two different races being together. I just oppose the concept for my own people. I'm sure there are a lot of people who do the same.

That's just it, it's not 'another' thing, it's the same thing. The right of anyone to marry/not to marry and be treated equally under law is a civil rights issue just as the right to equal & undiscriminatory legal treatment irrespective of ethnicity is a civil rights issue; just as the right to equal consideration under law for all genders is a civil rights issue; just as the right to be treated equally irrespective of one's religion or lack thereof is a civil rights issue.

To oppose the concept is to oppose the civil rights movement and the basic premise that everyone should have equal rights. Is that really the position you hold?

I oppose the concept as such. I generally advise people against marrying someone not of their own kin.
It's not a civil rights issue for me, it's an issue of ethnic consciousness.

Even though a person of a mixed race has equal rights under the law, such a person does not have equal worth in front of my eyes.
That person has a different ethnic consciousness residing in the mind of his/her, and is not a part of the Turkish nation in my eyes. Meaning, another of our number is lost in the creation of a mixed-ethnicity person.
I oppose the concept, therefore.
But yes, me and him, equals before the law, but not equals before the Turkish nation. Never.

(May 21, 2012 at 2:17 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: I oppose the concept as such. I generally advise people against marrying someone not of their own kin.
It's not a civil rights issue for me, it's an issue of ethnic consciousness.

Even though a person of a mixed race has equal rights under the law, such a person does not have equal worth in front of my eyes.
That person has a different ethnic consciousness residing in the mind of his/her, and is not a part of the Turkish nation in my eyes. Meaning, another of our number is lost in the creation of a mixed-ethnicity person.
I oppose the concept, therefore.
But yes, me and him, equals before the law, but not equals before the Turkish nation. Never.

hock:

So although you think that people should have legal rights, you're of the opinion that you shouldn't/don't have to recognise those rights?

Ethnic counciousness?!? WTF?!! I'm going to pull you up on that right now. Unless you can demonstrate:

1. that there are statistically valid differences between 'counciousnesses' (other than nominal, human variation)

2. that these differences derive from ethnicity, based on nationalist/tribal definitions

...the comment you made was racist. I mean, I've heard some pretty disgusting nationalist bollocks out of the mouths of EDL members but I've not heard any comment that low or bigotted since the late 80s.

(May 21, 2012 at 2:17 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Even though a person of a mixed race has equal rights under the law, such a person does not have equal worth in front of my eyes.

So, what you are saying is that you judge people to be inferior to yourself based on the race or ethnicity of their parents.

Very brave of you to admit to such a thing on a forum where, unlike yourself, the majority don't believe in discrimination based on a minuscule variation of a persons D.N.A. when compared with our own.

Quote:So although you think that people should have legal rights, you're of the opinion that you shouldn't/don't have to recognise those rights?

I do have to recognize their rights, as the government recognizes their rights. Who am I to oppose the government in that regard?

Quote:Ethnic counciousness?!? WTF?!! I'm going to pull you up on that right now. Unless you can demonstrate:

Well, I guess you never heard of ethnic consciousness. That is the consciousness that I and many nationalists possess.
The belonging of a particular people and race. Not two or more peoples or races.

Quote:1. that there are statistically valid differences between 'counciousnesses' (other than nominal, human variation)

I guess you do not understand what "ethnic consciousness" means.
It means that you feel belonging to a specific people/ethnicity/race.
I feel belonging to a single and single race of people only. That is of the Turks. I do not feel belonging to any other people(say, albanians, for example, a minority in Turkey). If I had an albanian parent or grandparent, in addition to a parent of Turkish ancestry, I would feel a general lack of loyalty to the Turkish cause. I have seen this within the many mixed-ethnicity people that I've met around here. They are quick to denounce their Turkish heritage and embrace their other heritage when faced with anti-Turkist sentiments or Turkist policies. Half-breeds are potentially the most dangerous type of people as they practically swing back and forth between different sides.

Quote:2. that these differences derive from ethnicity, based on nationalist/tribal definitions

They do.

Quote:the comment you made was racist.

Yes it is.

Quote:I mean, I've heard some pretty disgusting nationalist bollocks out of the mouths of EDL members but I've not heard any comment that low or bigotted since the late 80s.

Whatever. Obviously I do not care if you choose to pollute your own blood. Just stop inciting others to do so by preaching that it doesn't matter.
It matters a lot.
It spells the difference between loyalty and disloyalty, it spells the difference between honesty and dishonesty, it spells the difference between being useful to your nation and to your people and being a liability.

Certainly, in a country that was founded upon an ethnicity, we must care about such things.

(May 21, 2012 at 3:15 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote:

Quote:the comment you made was racist.

Yes it is.

One tends to think a miserably and habitually subhuman turk would at least be free of the disgusting trait of thinking his race to be superior. But he is appearently devoid of even the one redeeming trait that is available to him.

.

(May 21, 2012 at 3:10 pm)Darwinian Wrote:

(May 21, 2012 at 2:17 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Even though a person of a mixed race has equal rights under the law, such a person does not have equal worth in front of my eyes.

So, what you are saying is that you judge people to be inferior to yourself based on the race or ethnicity of their parents.

Very brave of you to admit to such a thing on a forum where, unlike yourself, the majority don't believe in discrimination based on a minuscule variation of a persons D.N.A. when compared with our own.

Yes, I have to. Don't you judge a racing horse by it's purity?
Obviously the same is applicable to humans.
But this is not why I made that comment.
I look for a purity of the mind first.
If a man is of pure mind, that is of a single ethnic consciousness, that which is the same as mine, I consider that person to be my equal and my comrade, my brother.

People who are of mixed ancestry, say, Turkish-Circassian, or Turkish-Arab, or anything that is a mix of a Turk has a a different ancestry that obstructs it's complete loyalty to his Turkish side(the side that matters to me) is of lesser worth in my eyes.
I define everyone's worth by how well they can serve our people and nation.
Obviously, only a person of pure mind and blood can serve our nation to it's fullest. Anyone of mixed heritage is likely to serve for personal profit, and will betray it at the first sign of dark times. They also oppose things that aim for our national unification, and generally tend to have minds that are aimed at local goals, since they are based on geographical, not on ethnic-national terms.
Besides, why should it be a sign of bravery? Do you expect me to hide my views just to make others comfortable? Besides, my views should not make anyone uncomfortable. I simply aim for the unification and purity of my own people.
You should not really see yourselves relevant to my views.

---

(May 21, 2012 at 3:24 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(May 21, 2012 at 3:15 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Yes it is.

One tends to think a miserably and habitually subhuman turk would at least be free of the disgusting trait of thinking his race to be superior. But he is appearently devoid of even the one redeeming trait that is available to him.

.

The of impure blood always tends to insult those of purity. That which he finds himself lacking, he sees in others. Just to state. I've never considered anyone to be subhuman, but obviously you do.

(May 21, 2012 at 3:24 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(May 21, 2012 at 3:15 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Yes it is.

One tends to think a miserably and habitually subhuman turk would at least be free of the disgusting trait of thinking his race to be superior. But he is appearently devoid of even the one redeeming trait that is available to him.

.

er... wow Chuck... wow. Not the words I would of chosen, theres no need to sink to his level. Just cool down, everyone knows the guy has warped views. K?

(May 21, 2012 at 3:48 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote:

(May 21, 2012 at 3:24 pm)Chuck Wrote: One tends to think a miserably and habitually subhuman turk would at least be free of the disgusting trait of thinking his race to be superior. But he is appearently devoid of even the one redeeming trait that is available to him.

.

er... wow Chuck... wow. Not the words I would of chosen, theres no need to sink to his level. Just cool down, everyone knows the guy has warped views. K?

Let him use whatever words he wishes to. He is already in a level below mine, he can sink no further than he already has. What and who is he in comparison to me?

(May 21, 2012 at 3:15 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: I do have to recognize their rights, as the government recognizes their rights. Who am I to oppose the government in that regard?

When you said...

Quote:Even though a person of a mixed race has equal rights under the law, such a person does not have equal worth in front of my eyes.

...you admitted that you don't care what the law might say, you'll apply your own criteria with the specific purpose of treating people unequally on grounds of their ethnicity.

Quote:Well, I guess you never heard of ethnic consciousness. That is the consciousness that I and many nationalists possess.
The belonging of a particular people and race. Not two or more peoples or races.

Of course I know the term, don't be patronising. It's purpose was to unite oppressed ethnicities in the struggle for equal rights (in the same way the term 'feminism' is used by women). It was not intended to be used as a nationalistic premise for bigotry! Your abuse of the term shits on the memory of all those who made any kind of sacrifice in the name of racial equality.

Quote:I feel belonging to a single and single race of people only.

You do; the human race. It doesn't matter how you 'feel' about it, that is the basic fact. You might well benefit from having your genes sequenced & read so that you can understand how similar you are to other people of every nation. All human 'ethnicities' are a varied mixture of each other; in fact, there is no such thing as 'ethnicity' except as the result of negative tribal memes. A greater understanding of what binds us as a species would do you the world of good.

Quote:Whatever. Obviously I do not care if you choose to pollute your own blood. Just stop inciting others to do so by preaching that it doesn't matter.
It matters a lot.
It spells the difference between loyalty and disloyalty, it spells the difference between honesty and dishonesty, it spells the difference between being useful to your nation and to your people and being a liability.

Certainly, in a country that was founded upon an ethnicity, we must care about such things.

You demonstrate my previous point for me. I don't care about your tribalistic justifications for bigotry, it doesn't change the fact that your views cause harm to others. Thousands of people are killed each year because of such views; many, many more are abused or injured.

One more thing. Historically, societies which have accepted other 'ethnicities' into their own have generated far higher survival rates and quality of life, on an individual basis, than those which have xenophobic tendencies. Not only are your views ethically questionable, they're fractally wrong.