(June 7, 2012 at 1:15 am)Aiza Wrote:

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This meditation is from the first sermon of His Eminence Blessed John Henry Newman ("Holiness Necessary for Future Blessedness"), given when he was only 25 years old, which made me think a bit of some of the points mentioned in this forum. Hopefully it doesn't come off as too preachy, rather I think its just thoughtful:

....even supposing a man of unholy life were suffered to enter heaven, he would not be happy there; so that it would be no mercy to permit him to enter....

Supposing, then, instead of it being said that no irreligious man could serve and attend on God in heaven (or see Him, as the text expresses it), we were told that no irreligious man could worship, or spiritually see Him in church; should we not at once perceive the meaning of the doctrine? viz. that, were a man to come hither, who had suffered his mind to grow up in its own way, as nature or chance determined, without any deliberate habitual effort after truth and purity, he would find no real pleasure here, but would soon get weary of the place; because, in this house of God, he would hear only of that one subject which he cared little or nothing about, and nothing at all of those things which excited his hopes and fears, his sympathies and energies. If then a man without religion (supposing it possible) were admitted into heaven, doubtless he would sustain a great disappointment. Before, indeed, he fancied that he could be happy there; but when he arrived there, he would find no discourse but that which he had shunned on earth, no pursuits but those he had disliked or despised, nothing which bound him to aught else in the universe, and made him feel at home, nothing which he could enter into and rest upon. He would perceive himself to be an isolated being, cut away by Supreme Power from those objects which were still entwined around his heart. Nay, he would be in the presence of that Supreme Power, whom he never on earth could bring himself steadily to think upon, and whom now he regarded only as the destroyer of all that was precious and dear to him. Ah! he could not bear the face of the Living God; the Holy God would be no object of joy to him. "Let us alone! What have we to do with thee?" is the sole thought and desire of unclean souls, even while they acknowledge His majesty. None but the holy can look upon the Holy One; without holiness no man can endure to see the Lord.

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(June 10, 2012 at 2:38 am)Godschild Wrote:

(June 10, 2012 at 1:33 am)Zen Badger Wrote: I see, philosophical ramblings upon a subject upon which you have no knowledge.

So how could you be happy in heaven knowing that there are millions of souls suffering eternal torment in hell when their only "crime" is non belief or believing in the wrong god?

Or are you so callous that you just wouldn't care?

How retarded can you all stay, I mean really, how many more times do we have to explain that unforgiven sin is the problem, no one's being callous, if we did not care we would not be here. Our time spent here could have been used to do many other things, instead we at least try.

(June 10, 2012 at 9:39 pm)Cinjin Wrote: The sermon is a dead Catholic's not-so-subtle way to let his parishioners know that they may go ahead and feel rightly justified in telling non-Christians that they're going to burn in hell. Lets call the "sermon" what it is: a bull shit self-righteous pat on the back for all the believers who need some basic validation for their shitty treatment of the entire fucking world.

*shouting* Hey religious dead guy in a stupid hat and an exorbitantly priced dress ----- go fuck yourself.

(June 10, 2012 at 5:46 pm)Faith No More Wrote: So, are you saying that as long as we regret our mistakes but don't believe in god we will still get into heaven, or is it that not being impenitent requires that your regret be targeted towards god, thereby making it impossible for the non-believer to make it to heaven?

(June 10, 2012 at 4:02 pm)Thor Wrote: And here is where you are in disagreement with most of the other Christians I've encountered. The vast majority have indicated that non-belief is enough to send you to an eternity in hell. You guys don't even agree with each other! Why should I listen to any of you?

(June 10, 2012 at 10:59 pm)Aiza Wrote: needless to say the majority of Christians are Catholic so when I say what I do I am giving the standard for the bulk of Christianity.

(June 10, 2012 at 9:39 pm)Cinjin Wrote:

(June 7, 2012 at 1:15 am)Aiza Wrote:

---

This meditation is from the first sermon of His Eminence Blessed John Henry Newman ("Holiness Necessary for Future Blessedness"), given when he was only 25 years old, which made me think a bit of some of the points mentioned in this forum. Hopefully it doesn't come off as too preachy, rather I think its just thoughtful:

....even supposing a man of unholy life were suffered to enter heaven, he would not be happy there; so that it would be no mercy to permit him to enter....

Supposing, then, instead of it being said that no irreligious man could serve and attend on God in heaven (or see Him, as the text expresses it), we were told that no irreligious man could worship, or spiritually see Him in church; should we not at once perceive the meaning of the doctrine? viz. that, were a man to come hither, who had suffered his mind to grow up in its own way, as nature or chance determined, without any deliberate habitual effort after truth and purity, he would find no real pleasure here, but would soon get weary of the place; because, in this house of God, he would hear only of that one subject which he cared little or nothing about, and nothing at all of those things which excited his hopes and fears, his sympathies and energies. If then a man without religion (supposing it possible) were admitted into heaven, doubtless he would sustain a great disappointment. Before, indeed, he fancied that he could be happy there; but when he arrived there, he would find no discourse but that which he had shunned on earth, no pursuits but those he had disliked or despised, nothing which bound him to aught else in the universe, and made him feel at home, nothing which he could enter into and rest upon. He would perceive himself to be an isolated being, cut away by Supreme Power from those objects which were still entwined around his heart. Nay, he would be in the presence of that Supreme Power, whom he never on earth could bring himself steadily to think upon, and whom now he regarded only as the destroyer of all that was precious and dear to him. Ah! he could not bear the face of the Living God; the Holy God would be no object of joy to him. "Let us alone! What have we to do with thee?" is the sole thought and desire of unclean souls, even while they acknowledge His majesty. None but the holy can look upon the Holy One; without holiness no man can endure to see the Lord.

---

The sermon is a dead Catholic's not-so-subtle way to let his parishioners know that they may go ahead and feel rightly justified in telling non-Christians that they're going to burn in hell. Lets call the "sermon" what it is: a bull shit self-righteous pat on the back for all the believers who need some basic validation for their shitty treatment of the entire fucking world.


*shouting* Hey religious dead guy in a stupid hat and an exorbitantly priced dress ----- go fuck yourself.

(June 10, 2012 at 11:21 pm)Rhythm Wrote: All fine and dandy, but what if it's a bearded caucasian man in a white robe handing out the handies?

(June 10, 2012 at 8:12 am)Gaest Wrote:

(June 9, 2012 at 5:45 pm)Godschild Wrote: That's not an option.

Then I´ll go for this backup plan