Drich Wrote:Slavery is wrong now, why because we do not need it to look like it did pre civial war any more. But make no mistakes there still are slaves. ask a mother who works 18 hours aday if she is free to do as she will or the man who sold his dreams to meet the requirements to live in under the requirements of wellfare. Slavery is still alive and well, it just been compartmentalized for you to only identify it if it presents itself in a very specific way. for if you saw it as it truly presents itself, then the selfrighteous would turn this country on it's ear, and we maybe fighting a second civial war before long.

That is not slavery; that is dependency. Slavery is the act of owning another human being. So, we may all be metaphorical slaves to our desires, the government, our employers, and corporations, but that is because we are dependant on them. We are not slaves in the sense that any of these things own us. We can walk away from them at any time. Altough we may not want to, we have that option, which a slave does not.

Everything you have said is this thread is smoke and mirrors attempting to obscure this fact.

[quote='Annik' pid='308390' dateline='1341934864']
[quote]You know, you're right. I can't accept the definition of a slave.[/quote]Now what if the defination you champion, the very same defination that has you 'rightfully' and willfully close your mind all other understandings, has you misidentifying how you yourself have been bound as a slave in your own life? Do you wish to protect the life you live so militantly that you yourself can not examine it, or question it unless you approach it from a specific POV? Because this is exactly what you have done when you will not examine what it is you think you know. Remember a wise man questions all things, not just the things he finds questionable.

[quote]Might I suggest that you pull your head out of your idealized-slavery-ass? I'm sure that there were indentured servants, but that's a little different than a slave.[/quote]At no point did I ever identified these people as indentured servants. Do you know why? Because the bible calls them slaves. If you call them indentured servants then know what you call a slave and what the bible calls a slave are not the same thing. Maybe that is why you should look at what is being discussed rather than closing up shop simply because you have been conditioned to think certain things about certain words/concepts.

[quote]Also, human life and human choice are not for sale. They are NOT.[/quote]We have been Given to only one choice. And Ironically selling yourself to sin costs you that choice. All other 'choice' is a philosphy based on the illusion of control. for what choices can be made by any of us apart from the choices provided to us by our station in life? For instances, what if i were a poor man and could only eat from a dollar menu at a fast food chain, but chose to goto a nice restraunt and order a $180.00 steak dinner? Would my choice be free from reprizals from the community in which I live, for dinning outside of my social/ecconomic means? No I would be thrown in jail and punished for not staying with in the boundries my social/ecconomic station in life. So my 'choices' are limited to the Mc double, a side salad or a baked potato with butter and chives... (This is not true choice, this is choosing between pot liquor and corn bread and the shrimp head stew left over from the 'big house')

Unless I Sell hours of my life my time to a company willing to give me far less per hour, than what I would sell hours off of the end of my life for. So I can raise my social ecconomic standard to a level deemed acceptable by my soceity's demands on one ordering a 180.00 steak dinner. I will be stuck with the choices of one bound to his station in life.

Whether you see it or not you have sold yourself to the same system of slavery being discussed in the bible. the only difference is the frequency in which you can change your occupations, and you work for goverment backed credits rather than directly for the things you buy from those credits. The only thing that has changed is what we call this process of trade and exchange


[quote] Additionally, there are plenty of slaves (yes, even in Biblical times, what a novel concept) that are taken against their will.[/quote]so?

[quote]If the cost is even one human life, it is not worth it. It's cruel. Cruel and horrid. [/quote]Says the girl living in the soceity built on the back of literal slaves past and present.

[quote]It's the exploitation of your fellow man. How can you not extend empathy for their plight? I don't even understand. [/quote]The screen you are reading these post from, the key board you type on.. Do you think they come from men/women (or even children) always making a livable wage? The cloths you wear, the car you drive All of the parts in that car. Do you think it were built by people makeing 40 or 50 dollars an hour?

No, they are not. Western soceity lives off of the backs of the rest of the world. 'we' exploit the poor for cheap labor to manfacture goods as inexpensivly as possiable. Why do you think manufacturing of just about everything has moved to china or mexico? Do you think it is because factory robots are cheaper there? it's because they can pay labors 4 dollars a month to build the moderatly priced items you put on your wish list for your b-day. Or so you can buy an ecconomy car that does not cost 200K.

[quote]Are you employed?[/quote]
[quote]Yep. I get paid hourly and I'm free to quit at any second. Freewill. You should think about that. This is a very poor analogy.[/quote]do you have responsiablities out side of going out and gas money? if yes, and you have house, morgage, kids, collage loans to pay for then you are not 'free' to do anything except pay your bills. you can quit you job for a while, but you will soon have to get another if you can't find someone to pay your way in life. This is paralelled in 'trading slaves' and slave services in the bible. Don't fool yourself you will have to work in some capasity for someone for the rest of your life whether you want to or not.

[quote]
Please, inform this man how much you love slavery. I'm sure he'd agree with you.[/quote]What makes you think I love slavery? because I will not conceed the to the idea of what a slave is supposed to be?
That i have learned to identify it in my life and free myself from it? That i am helping other to do the same?

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[quote='Faith No More' pid='308531' dateline='1341951506']
That is not slavery; that is dependency. [quote]Slavery is the act of owning another human being.[/quote]Not according to the bible. There is an element of care, protection of said slave and his family that is being over looked in favor of the defination you have posted. Again we are talking about two very seperate things that share a common name.

[quote] So, we may all be metaphorical slaves to our desires, the government, our employers, and corporations, but that is because we are dependant on them. We are not slaves in the sense that any of these things own us. We can walk away from them at any time.[/quote]try and walk away from your Goverment master. burn your SS card, go off grid, stop paying your taxes and See what Master does when he catches up with you.

[quote] Altough we may not want to, we have that option, which a slave does not.[/quote] you guys have no clue what your talking about. It like "Roots" and every movie modeled after it has somehow defined Every relationship a slave had with his master in your mind.

A very large number stayed on with their masters after the war, of those many took the last names of their former owner as a testament or a pledge of on going service. only about 13,000 people "return home."
why did they stay? because they were dependant, just like we are.

(July 10, 2012 at 4:57 pm)Drich Wrote: Says the girl living in the soceity built on the back of literal slaves past and present.

What is your point here? Just because we can enjoy the fruits of a modern society doesn't mean we can't condemn slavery?

Quote:The screen you are reading these post from, the key board you type on.. Do you think they come from men/women (or even children) always making a livable wage?

What exactly is a "livable wage"? And is it better to be working at a crappy job for $X an hour or to be not working and making zero dollars an hour?

Quote:The cloths you wear, the car you drive All of the parts in that car. Do you think it were built by people makeing 40 or 50 dollars an hour?

Why would anyone think that?

Quote:No, they are not. Western soceity lives off of the backs of the rest of the world.

Oh, bullshit. Get off your soapbox and address the issue at hand in this thread.

(July 10, 2012 at 4:57 pm)Drich Wrote: Says the girl living in the soceity built on the back of literal slaves past and present.

That is complete and utter bullshit. If you had any fucking sense you would be ashamed of yourself. Your entire tack in this vein is a red herring, and you keep saying more and more outrageous things in an effort to divert from your abominable approval of slavery and the slavery your mythical god and the men who invented it condoned.

(July 10, 2012 at 3:19 pm)Drich Wrote: [quote='Ziploc Surprise' pid='308383' dateline='1341933710']

Quote:Drich, you are mixing several separate concepts in the Bible. I also suspect that you are doing this on purpose to confuse people and also as an opportunity to preach to people.

First, the statement "of slaves to sin alive in Christ" is an analogy used to explain a theological concept - that's all.

Before I get into a line by line arguement, lets address this statement first.

What if it is not an analogy?

what is a slave? In biblical terms it is one who yeild his will to that of another for some form of compensation. As a side note or personal observation the 'compensation offered is in far less value than the service offered.

How are we a slave to sin? We yeild our will to the parameters and consenquences of sin. In exchange 'we' get to be outside the expressed will of God. What will the final result or consenquence of sin be? Eternial seperation From God.

How is this any different than the biblical defination of what a slave is?
You are bound to the laws and consenquences of sin. said consenquences can not only have you beaten a inch from your life but have you beaten to death. It can take your dreams, leave you used abused and broken, it seperates families, it indentures men to hard labor, it sees men to prison, it takes the furtures of children, it has children put to death... i would dare say that there isn't one thing a 17th century taskmaster has not done that sin has not done a trillion times over.

Yet you can only see skin color, vocation, and compensation as the only means of identifying slavery.

Quote: We on this thread are not talking about that analogy and theological concept and you know this. We on this thread are talking about the physical practice of slavery, how this physical practice was condoned in the Bible, and how human beings have morally evolved to a point where we now know that the practice of slavery is wrong.

Slavery is wrong now, why because we do not need it to look like it did pre civial war any more. But make no mistakes there still are slaves. ask a mother who works 18 hours aday if she is free to do as she will or the man who sold his dreams to meet the requirements to live in under the requirements of wellfare. Slavery is still alive and well, it just been compartmentalized for you to only identify it if it presents itself in a very specific way. for if you saw it as it truly presents itself, then the selfrighteous would turn this country on it's ear, and we maybe fighting a second civial war before long.

This is stupid, of course it is analogy. It is one of the most important concepts in Christianity. They preach it in church all the time. How can you know this and willingly lie about it? Sounds like sin to me. Hee hee.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
New International Version (NIV)
19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

This is just a part of the slavery doctrine in the Bible. Like a slave you are not your own you were bought with a price. Because of this "purchase" you must yield your will to god. The contract involved giving up freedoms. Unlike actual slavery though, in the analogy the person willingly chooses to be a slave to god.

Now I didn't explain that for your benefit because if you are a Christian who has spent any time in church you already know this. I explained it to point out your deception. To point out how you twist things.

I don't need to define slavery again so that you can see the difference between the definition of slavery and what you are describing. Other people have done a fine job of this. You just refuse to acknowledge this.

[quote='Ziploc Surprise' pid='308584' dateline='1341958474']
[quote]This is stupid, of course it is analogy. [/quote]It's not.

[quote] It is one of the most important concepts in Christianity. [/quote]It is.

[quote]They preach it in church all the time.[/quote]They do.

[quote]How can you know this and willingly lie about it? Sounds like sin to me. Hee hee.[/quote]Not a judgement just an honest observation, Maybe this is why your faith failed. Because your Master call you to service and you ignored your call because you thought His call to be another analogy.

---

[quote='Thor' pid='308561' dateline='1341955409']
[quote]What is your point here? Just because we can enjoy the fruits of a modern society doesn't mean we can't condemn slavery? [/quote] NO YOU CAN NOT LEST YOU BE A FOOL OR HYPOCRITE!
90% of consumer goods are either completely made by 'slave labor' or contain parts made by oppressed enslaved people. TV's, Cars, computters, appliances, textiles/cloths. all sorts of electronics, componets, toys, But again unless someone meets your understanding of a slave, then you are willing to over look modern day examples of it for the sake of inexpensive consumer goods.

[quote]What exactly is a "livable wage"? And is it better to be working at a crappy job for $X an hour or to be not working and making zero dollars an hour?[/quote] A livable wage is being able to pay for a place to live food to eat and the day to day needs one must have just to survive. You know, things a slave owner was bound by the Law of God to provide (In the biblical examples I have been talking about since the beginning.) In your world it is ok to give less to a man than a biblical slave would be entitled to, for the sake of not having the title you have deemed 'always bad.'

[quote]Why would anyone think that?[/quote]

[quote]Oh, bullshit. Get off your soapbox and address the issue at hand in this thread.[/quote]Now that i have connected a few more of the dots can you see how they are connected yet?

Quote:How can you know this and willingly lie about it? Sounds like sin to me. Hee hee.

Not a judgement just an honest observation, Maybe this is why your faith failed. Because your Master call you to service and you ignored your call because you thought His call to be another analogy. [/quote]

Ok folks can I officially call this guy a dick?

(July 10, 2012 at 11:42 pm)Ziploc Surprise Wrote: Ok folks can I officially call this guy a dick?

Drichead seems apropos.

(July 10, 2012 at 11:53 pm)cato123 Wrote:

(July 10, 2012 at 11:42 pm)Ziploc Surprise Wrote: Ok folks can I officially call this guy a dick?

Drichead seems apropos.

To be honest, I think that's bit generous. I think 'drip' is perfectly adequate.

Well so since you can ignore gods words, in general that means you can ignore god. Hey guy's great news! Even though were ahteist we still get into heaven if were wrong!

(not reading all the post pages.)