(August 4, 2012 at 10:39 am)Rhythm Wrote: -There isn't anything to wiggle out of- ?

Wiggling out of a contradiction of IPs? I was of the opinion there was none.

Well, if you feel the need to perform an exercise in creative interpretation then have it it. I just don't see what there is to wriggle out of in the first place. Sort of a manufactured dilemma, imho. You say Kenobi is a good guy, I say he's a bad guy. You say he died on page 36 of book 1, I say he only -seems to have died- on page 36 of book 1.

¯\(º_o)/¯

(August 4, 2012 at 8:52 am)spockrates Wrote: Sorry for the vague answer. Please let me try to be more specific: I'm a Christian, but I'm not into partisan politics, or partisan religion. I continuously question everything I believe (putting it to the test) and hold on only to what is true (to what passes the test). Does that shed better light on my motives?

Yes, that will do just fine. I was simply wondering if you were serious or if I might waste my time speaking to you, and you have proved that not only are you serious but willing as well. Willing to change to conform to the evidence- willing to even consider new evidence.
Appreciate the answer. Finally.

(August 4, 2012 at 11:42 am)Skepsis Wrote:

(August 4, 2012 at 8:52 am)spockrates Wrote: Sorry for the vague answer. Please let me try to be more specific: I'm a Christian, but I'm not into partisan politics, or partisan religion. I continuously question everything I believe (putting it to the test) and hold on only to what is true (to what passes the test). Does that shed better light on my motives?

Yes, that will do just fine. I was simply wondering if you were serious or if I might waste my time speaking to you, and you have proved that not only are you serious but willing as well. Willing to change to conform to the evidence- willing to even consider new evidence.
Appreciate the answer. Finally.

I appreciate your giving me the benefit of the doubt. Thanks!

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(August 4, 2012 at 10:50 am)Rhythm Wrote: Well, if you feel the need to perform an exercise in creative interpretation then have it it. I just don't see what there is to wriggle out of in the first place. Sort of a manufactured dilemma, imho. You say Kenobi is a good guy, I say he's a bad guy. You say he died on page 36 of book 1, I say he only -seems to have died- on page 36 of book 1.

¯\(º_o)/¯

Ezekiel says God deceives; the writer of Hebrews says it's impossible for God to lie. Not sure why you don't see a conflict between the two. You Rythm are a mystery, wrapped in an enigma, deep within a black hole of that which I might never know!



In a word, I find you...

(August 4, 2012 at 2:23 am)Godschild Wrote: And if the prophet gives a deceiving prophecy, then I the LORD have deceived him by not giving him the prophecy, I will make a fool of him before My nation, Israel, for trying to deceive them.


The two verses have nothing to do with each other. I hope this clears things up for you.

spockrates Wrote:Actually, it's still clear as mud!



The writer of Hebrews says it is impossible for God to lie. Ezekiel quotes God as saying he himself deceives. Are you thinking that deceiving is not the same as telling a lie?

The writer of Hebrews is correct, God can not lie, deceiving and lying are not necessarily the same. Example military battles are often won by deception. This would actually qualify as a strategy.
What I was trying to explain is this, God allowed the false prophet to believe his own deception, God actually never deceived the false prophet but allowed the prophet to try and deceive Israel. God punished the prophet for his deceitful work by ruining his reputation as a prophet so the Israelites would not listen to him. In actuality God was protecting His reputation as one who does not lie. If the people of Israel believed the prophecy and it did not come to past, then the people would say God has deceived us. Hope this helps.

(August 4, 2012 at 1:03 pm)spockrates Wrote: Ezekiel says God deceives; the writer of Hebrews says it's impossible for God to lie. Not sure why you don't see a conflict between the two. You Rythm are a mystery, wrapped in an enigma, deep within a black hole of that which I might never know!

Ezekiel says? Ezekiel? When I pronounce the name aloud it sounds similar to the sound my cat makes when she attepts to eject a hair ball. Ezekiel?

Perhaps you didn't notice when you joined, but this is the Atheist Forums. You seem to be trying to give Rhythm stick by invoking a contradiction. Wasn't this the mission of your two posts? You've recognized a contradiction, now go ponder it. We don't really give a shit what Ezekial or Hebrews has to say. We recognize the contradiction and leave it as such, but you want to try and tell us the contradiction isn't really what it appears to be by means of definition hocus pocus and invoking multi-language translations.

One ass or two? Did I lose you? Did your savior triumphantly ride into Jerusalem on one ass or two? Your gospels seem to differ in opinion. Riding on 'them'; don't forget this bit. In fact, in this case, it's a missed translation that causes the contradiction (you'll understand my meaning if you know anything about the history of the gospels).