(August 31, 2012 at 2:32 pm)Abel Wrote: When you have nothing to offer, sarcasm is all you have. You poor person.

What makes you think I'm being sarcastic?

I think it's more mockery or derision than sarcasm, though the distinctions are subtle and tend to a degree of overlap.

Edit: to fix embarrassing typo while I still can.

You're probably right. In either case it is obnoxious and I refuse to flounder in it.

(August 31, 2012 at 3:01 pm)Abel Wrote: You're probably right. In either case it is obnoxious and I refuse to flounder in it.

Oh, you are floundering all right.

Undeceived Wrote:Can you prove Julius Caesar was assassinated?

I've personally witnessed an assassination, so to believe that another one took place is no big stretch. If he wasn't it's of no consequence to me. You're trying to compare apples and oranges, which is very disingenuous; I'm sure you've heard of the old "extraordinary claims" maxim.

Quote:Can you prove Aristotle was born in Stagira?

Again, is that an extraordinary claim? Does it matter to my eternal state of existence?

Quote:Can you prove Plato wrote the works he is alleged to have?

Yet again, it matters not, his works are not claiming to have walked on water followed by the prequel to popular comic and TV series, The Walking Dead.

Quote:This is history. You can't expect to use the scientific method on historical people and events. We have written testimonies instead.

How very convenient that it's still ancient history, and in the age where we could actually test such claims of divinity, there's not a sign of a miracle anywhere.

Quote:Do you, Gambit, believe Julius Caesar was assassinated?

I believe it, but I'm not building a religion on it and trying to force whole nations to believe as I do. Next.

(August 31, 2012 at 12:12 pm)Abel Wrote:

(August 31, 2012 at 12:02 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Excuse my ignorance, but.... What is this "born gain" thing?

Hello Pocaracas. Born again is what takes place in one's life when they accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. My spirit became alive by the power of Christ.

Scholars have shown that the conversation between Nicodemus and our Lord in St John 3 could not have taken place because the Greek pun which could mean both "born from above" and "born again" had no Aramaic equivalent. Jesus presumably meant the former but Nicodemus misunderstood him and thought of the latter meaning.

(August 31, 2012 at 12:12 pm)Abel Wrote:

(August 31, 2012 at 12:02 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Excuse my ignorance, but.... What is this "born gain" thing?

Hello Pocaracas. Born again is what takes place in one's life when they accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. My spirit became alive by the power of Christ.

I see...
So you've come to accept what someone told you about this Jesus, that he's your Lord and Savior. Your spirit then became alive by the power of said Jesus Christ.

Why would this Jesus person be Lord? We're way past feudalism, we now have democracy. Lords are not very well accepted... although present day politicians do a bang up job at impersonating them.
You also come to accept this man as your savior. What happened to you that required saving? Nowadays, the best saviors I know of are firemen and doctors... they actually save people from dangerous situations.

Your spirit became alive? how does that happen? I thought believers assumed their spirit was already living when they're born (the first time).

Well, bottom line, what were you before this "born again" event? And can you describe exactly what happened to you when it did occur?
I'm thinking of putting high odds on "psychological event misinterpreted by previous indoctrination", but I want to hear your side of the story.

(August 31, 2012 at 11:43 am)Abel Wrote: Let me ask you this...where is your evidence that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were not the authors? Where are the writings of late first century or early second century witnesses that could refute the authorship of these men? There is not one shred of evidence that refutes the Gospel authorship from the period they were written. It was hundreds of years after being accepted that there was any serious questions concerning their penmen.

The amazing thing is that the Bible refutes itself. When we put aside all the 'tradition' we get told when we're young and we actually read the Bible then we come across some weird stuff.

Why are Matthew and John written in 3rd person? More worryingly, why did 'Matthew', a supposed witness, need to rely on Mark for his Gospel? The same goes for Luke. It's based off Mark and even bits of Josephus. Then you get John which, apart from being in 3rd person, is theologically advanced and doesn't fit in with the Synoptics i.e. that's what happens when rumours get spread around, they become more fantastic.

Mark is my favourite Gospel. It doesn't matter what tradition asserts about its origins because the author wanted to make it clear that he used the OT as a basis for his work. I'm not talking about Jesus fulfilling prophecies either. We're talking here trivial events of his 'life' that came straight from other verses e.g. Mark 1:17/Jeremiah 16:16. Another one is the bit about the fig tree and temple robbers which is an allusion to Hosea 9:8-16. The problem that arises from all this is that these parallels leave no room for genuine history, unless all the characters carried OT's with them and they used it as a script.

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(August 31, 2012 at 3:45 pm)greneknight Wrote:

(August 31, 2012 at 12:12 pm)Abel Wrote: Hello Pocaracas. Born again is what takes place in one's life when they accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. My spirit became alive by the power of Christ.

Scholars have shown that the conversation between Nicodemus and our Lord in St John 3 could not have taken place because the Greek pun which could mean both "born from above" and "born again" had no Aramaic equivalent. Jesus presumably meant the former but Nicodemus misunderstood him and thought of the latter meaning.

The other problem is that they couldn't even have communicated. Jesus would have spoken Aramaic and Nicodemus spoke Greek.

Quote:CBA222, good to see you're not a hit-and-run.

My impression is you're a high school student. Would you mind mentioning your age? I'm not out to discredit you on what you have to say, your age is irrelevant to the merits of your argument.

However, you might get more gentle handling regarding personal remarks if people realize you're a lot younger than most of the rest of us.

My age? Well I'm sorry but I wish to keep that information disclosed, if you would understand. Sorry.

Hey CBA222, I gathered early on that you were maybe around my age or younger (I'm 21 if you forgot already). I just wanted to apologise for my agressiveness in posting style. I feel like I might have been a bit hard on you. That stems from my frustration in real life because 80% of my friends are Christian and I've had enough of the religious talk and want to make them see what I see...

Anyways, I hope you weren't offended in any way by my style, and if you were I'm deeply sorry!