(September 20, 2009 at 12:20 pm)Retorth Wrote: All this aside, however, no matter how you reference, define, convert, interpret, or what have you, the bible, it still contains a lot of flaws. It is written by man after all so its no surprise. I rest my case.

It contains no validated flaws that I know of. This point amongst the rest is lost to reason. This (what Arcanus is explaining) isn't special understanding, but commonly held understanding. All Christians know this. How can you rest your case on lost reasoning? Isn't that what you accuse Christians of doing? Having blind faith?

(September 20, 2009 at 12:20 pm)Retorth Wrote: I do not know how the Bible can be defined as 'accurate' when the words used to describe it can seemingly have more than one meaning ...

The same way the accuracy of ANY text can determined: responsible exegetical analysis.

(September 20, 2009 at 12:20 pm)Retorth Wrote: All this aside, however, no matter how you [critically analyze]—reference, define, convert, interpret or what have you—the Bible, it still contains a lot of flaws. It is written by man, after all, so it's no surprise. I rest my case.

Through critical analysis we just dispeled one supposed flaw. Are you suggesting there are flaws that are, as if by definition, impossible to dispel?

(September 20, 2009 at 11:11 am)Arcanus Wrote: ( there is only one God).

( God is three persons).

Well there ya go.

Christianity confirms it cannot make up it's mind. It performs mental gymnastics in a desperate need to make it all make sense, yet it fails. Well, actually you fail.

Now I'll wait for the standard "you just don't understand" line of crap. I understand you have a hard time distinguishing "one" from "three". <--One winky face. <--Three winky faces. See how that works?

Unless you live in bizarro world or christiandom. Those are the only two places I know of where 1=3 or 3=1. It matter not that "christianity affirms" 3=1 or 1=3. Christianity also "affirms" God made the sun stop so a war could be fought. It also "affirms" fidelity can be tested by making a woman accused of such eat dirt off a floor to see if she gets sick. It also "affirms" God flooded the entire world and killed off all human kind save for a small family.

I do believe you know what I am driving at here.

The Father is greater that I, and, I and the Father are one, are contradictory statements and you are failing to demonstrate otherwise.

[/quote]

(September 21, 2009 at 9:13 am)Dotard Wrote: ( there is only one God).

( God is three persons).

Well there ya go.

God is one - yet is described (or manifest) in these ways. ---This is similar to any immaterial idea being described/manifest in multiple ways. All these descriptions or manifestations indicate one idea. The fact that there are multiple descriptions or manifestations doesn't mean the idea is more than one idea in the end.

Dotard Wrote:The Father is greater that I, and, I and the Father are one, are contradictory statements and you are failing to demonstrate otherwise.

Jesus was a human representation of God. God is greater in the sense that He is not human (or affected by physicality), yet Jesus and God are of the same essence, if you will.

Is this sufficient?

(September 21, 2009 at 9:13 am)Dotard Wrote: Christianity confirms it cannot make up it's mind.

Christianity has affirmed for millennia that there is only one God. Yeah, definitely can't make up its mind. And Christianity has affirmed for thousands of years that this deity is comprised of three persons. Yep, it sure has a hard time making up its mind.


The only mental gymnastics here are yours, Dotard, with explicitly irrational attempts to pretend Christianity has ever affirmed anything other than one God. In at least this discussion, you are the only person who cannot distinguish 'one' from 'three'. Christianity affirms one God and for reasons that would embarrass a mentally inept orangutan you think, "Ah, three gods." Huh? Cue brain screeching to a halt. But at least you are consistent, for Christianity affirms three persons and for some equally incomprehensible reason you think, "Ah, one person." What the? Cue brain leakage from left ear. It's either that or you cannot distinguish between "person" and "God"—perhaps by some neurological short-circuit similar to dyslexia your brain sees those words as spelled with the same letters, or by a wholly inadequate education or pathological fear of dictionaries you think those words have the same definition.

One God is one God. And three persons is three persons. You can pretend otherwise, but that would be a brutal Straw Man. The epic fail is yours, Dotard.

(September 21, 2009 at 4:43 pm)Arcanus Wrote: Christianity has affirmed for millennia that there is only one God. And Christianity has affirmed for thousands of years that this deity is comprised of three persons.

And you had a problem with it when I stated it was one entity with two personalities. A split-personality if you will. Each personality views the other as separate entities. I say two because we were discussing Jesus and God. I was disregarding your holy ghost.

Quote:A bunch of insults...

Since you started it.....

No. You are the dumb fuck who is insisting this one God is three persons. YOU cannot seem to distinguish or understand ONE deity does not equal THREE deities. If you are assigning these 'persons' supernatural qualities then they can rightfully be labeled deities, or entities.

So tell me Mr. John Paul wanna-be, how the fuck can you say this ONE God is THREE persons? I don't give a fuck if a bunch of ancient dumbass'es said it is so, I'm asking YOU how the hell do you reconcile that?!

It's a simple question, is it one or is it three? You say it's both. It's one AND three! Why? Because some long dead catholic fucks said so? If I asked if it's round or if it's square you would say it's both because that's what your religion "affirms"? It's a idiotic position to take and it is your own pathological fears that keep you holding on to it and keeps your mental gymnastics going.

Christianity affirms only one God.
Christianity affirms God is three persons.

And you don't have a problem with that? You just accept it even though it is a contradiction for no other reason than your pathological fears.

Epic Fail? You claim one god is one god. You also make the statement three persons is three persons.

Yeah, no shit Sherlock. The question was, and still is, WHICH ONE IS IT? You answer seems to be "It's both!" Well, to that answer, which seems to be your strongest rebuttal, my response will be;

Oh shut the fuck up. Save that stupid shit for your christian bretheran who have no problem accepting the flood story as fact or earth is 6000 years old or people lived to be over 900 years old 3000 years ago or whatever other stupid lame-assed idiotic 'affirmations' of christianity.

You are making a claim that one God (one entity) is three persons. Provide evidence that this could possibly be so. "Christianity affirms" is NOT evidence. You cannot claim one round hole in the ground is also three square hills simultaneously just by invoking "christianity affirms". Well, you can claim it, but it's a idiotic claim. Just because your ideals are tenacious it does not make them worthy. Well, maybe to dumbfucks it does, but that's just an opinion.

And as a side note, you proved my statement "Now I wait for the 'you just don't understand' answer" true.

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(September 21, 2009 at 3:37 pm)ecolox Wrote: Is this sufficient?

No.

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(September 21, 2009 at 3:37 pm)ecolox Wrote: Jesus was a human representation of God. God is greater in the sense that He is not human (or affected by physicality), yet Jesus and God are of the same essence, if you will.

So, simple question, was Jesus God? Is Jesus and God one in the same? Or are they two separate beings? Same or separate?

If you spout any of that 'christianity affirms God and Jesus are both, the same and separate' I'm just going to hang up the phone.

(September 21, 2009 at 9:30 pm)Dotard Wrote:

(September 21, 2009 at 3:37 pm)ecolox Wrote: Is this sufficient?

No.

Why not? You didn't even confront the explanations.

(September 21, 2009 at 3:37 pm)ecolox Wrote: Jesus was a human representation of God. God is greater in the sense that He is not human (or affected by physicality), yet Jesus and God are of the same essence, if you will.

Dotard Wrote:So, simple question, was Jesus God? Is Jesus and God one in the same? Or are they two separate beings? Same or separate?

Jesus has the Spirit of God, and obviously God is not a physical human. So, in one sense they are the same (spiritually), and in another they are separate (physically).

Is this sufficient?

Dotard Wrote:Since you started it.....

It doesn't take much for a person who is not good to attack another (whether good or evil, innocent or guilty), does it? What is the purpose of your attack? If your reasoning ability cannot speak for itself, perhaps your ability to disrespect others will do some good? Maybe you will silence your opposition by degrading it, but you certainly have not achieved logic and reasoning - or anything admirable. What are you trying to prove by showing a disregard for others? - at least answer that.

Would you like to be insulted excessively - is that what you're trying to say? "Treat me as I treat you".

Quote:Jesus has the Spirit of God, and obviously God is not a physical human. So, in one sense they are the same (spiritually), and in another they are separate (physically).

Is this sufficient?

For what? It's your fairy tale and you obviously believe it....or at least profess that you do.

I'm more interested in why you are so terrified of life that you feel the need to invent such beings?

(September 21, 2009 at 3:37 pm)ecolox Wrote: Jesus was a human representation of God. God is greater in the sense that He is not human (or affected by physicality), yet Jesus and God are of the same essence, if you will.

I don't know why some Theists have to beat around the bush with BS apologetics and fancy terminology when an explanation such as yours would easily suffice.

However, I have a question. Where does the holy spirit come in your explanation? God is described as three entities (or whatever you wish to call it). The Father, Son and holy spirit.

God sent himself down to earth in the form of jesus then died and became the holy spirit. If this is so, wouldn't god and the holy spirit be two seperate (insert your preferred term here)? This is all matrix-like. Physically and scientifically impossible.

(September 21, 2009 at 11:03 pm)ecolox Wrote: Why not? You didn't even confront the explanations.

Jesus was a human representation of God. God is greater in the sense that He is not human (or affected by physicality), yet Jesus and God are of the same essence, if you will.

Jesus has the Spirit of God, and obviously God is not a physical human. So, in one sense they are the same (spiritually), and in another they are separate (physically).

So you are saying two physically beings share the same mind? If so then when Jesus was praying or talking to God he was in essence talking to, and answering, himself? Classic symptom of a split personality disorder except instead of one person with two "minds" (personalities) you have two persons claiming to share one mind. However one of these persons goes on record as speaking to the other, asking it favors (forgive them, they know not what they do). The actions of the character of Jesus in the bible betrays your apologetic.

Quote:It doesn't take much for a person who is not good to attack another (whether good or evil, innocent or guilty), does it? What is the purpose of your attack? If your reasoning ability cannot speak for itself, perhaps your ability to disrespect others will do some good? Maybe you will silence your opposition by degrading it, but you certainly have not achieved logic and reasoning - or anything admirable. What are you trying to prove by showing a disregard for others? - at least answer that.

Yes it's true. It don't take much for a person who is not good to attack another. I too wish to know the underlying causes for Arcanus to attack me as he did.
What I was trying to 'prove' is the personal attacks Mr. Arcanus rolled out into the discussion can be played by me also. Two can play that game.

I'm sure Mr. Arcanus has realized, with his super-fallacy-radar, personal attacks do nothing but demonstrate he has no rational answer when his position is called out as bullocks. To condense his answer in simple terms he would have been just as effective saying "because the bible says so you dumbfuck".

'Christianity affirms', 'Goddidit' and 'because the bible says so' are all variations of the same bullock answer.