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RE: 10 questions for your pastor
October 9, 2012 at 1:34 am
(October 9, 2012 at 12:35 am)Godschild Wrote: So if you do not see the Holy Spirit as a person of God, where do you get a trinity from. Christ did call Him another coming in My place, as if the Holy Spirit were a person, the same as the Father and Christ.
In your zest to poke holes in my statement you ignored the fact that I mentioned "personified", and "offspring". The "Holy Spirit" (not daughter, mother, child etc.) was manifested after(i.e. named order), and through (result of) The Father & Son!
Plus...as most theists know, to REALLY try to explain the complexity of the Trinity is an exercise in futility!
...like trying to explain anything to that Darkstar! All we can do is relate to the union in ways "we already know"!
I can see now that this will be an effort no matter how simple I try to make things! I'm not going to try and convince, or argue my points to anyone! Some just won't want to get it because it's at odds with everything they don't believe! That's fine.
I will reply to intelligent questions about the points I make. But I have no time to explain scripture, and theology and how it relates to my points! It's meant to be simple as can be and in common terms.
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RE: 10 questions for your pastor
October 9, 2012 at 2:06 am
(October 9, 2012 at 1:34 am)ronedee Wrote: (October 9, 2012 at 12:35 am)Godschild Wrote: So if you do not see the Holy Spirit as a person of God, where do you get a trinity from. Christ did call Him another coming in My place, as if the Holy Spirit were a person, the same as the Father and Christ.
In your zest to poke holes in my statement you ignored the fact that I mentioned "personified", and "offspring". The "Holy Spirit" (not daughter, mother, child etc.) was manifested after(i.e. named order), and through (result of) The Father & Son!
Plus...as most theists know, to REALLY try to explain the complexity of the Trinity is an exercise in futility!
...like trying to explain anything to that Darkstar! All we can do is relate to the union in ways "we already know"!
I can see now that this will be an effort no matter how simple I try to make things! I'm not going to try and convince, or argue my points to anyone! Some just won't want to get it because it's at odds with everything they don't believe! That's fine.
I will reply to intelligent questions about the points I make. But I have no time to explain scripture, and theology and how it relates to my points! It's meant to be simple as can be and in common terms.
I did notice the word "personified" and "offspring," that is why I asked, it seems to me that this is another way to explain GOD. Some denominations believe Christ was an angel and lifted up by the Father to be His Son. As I read scriptures the Trinity has always existed, there has never been a part of eternity that the three did not exist, to say the Holy Spirit is a part of God that was birthed so to speak means that HE was not original, that He is not eternal because He has not always existed, even if it were only for a moment. I understand what you mean about trying to explain the Trinity to anyone, it's difficult at best and may be best explained as one of the mysteries of GOD. My intentions are to understand your beliefs and to poke at them as you put it is a way of showing that we disagree up to the point of the poke, nothing more.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: 10 questions for your pastor
October 9, 2012 at 2:13 am
Quote: As I read scriptures the Trinity has always existed,
Scored single digits in reading comprehension, huh?
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RE: 10 questions for your pastor
October 9, 2012 at 2:29 am
Godschild, are you sure all the Gospels portray Jesus as being God?
Why doesn't he know when a fig tree is out of season? Surely the Creator would know better.
Why does Jesus ask God why he abandoned him on the cross? Surely the Creator would know exactly what's happening.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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RE: 10 questions for your pastor
October 9, 2012 at 10:49 am
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2012 at 10:50 am by ronedee.)
(October 9, 2012 at 2:06 am)Godschild Wrote: I did notice the word "personified" and "offspring," that is why I asked, it seems to me that this is another way to explain GOD. Some denominations believe Christ was an angel and lifted up by the Father to be His Son. As I read scriptures the Trinity has always existed, there has never been a part of eternity that the three did not exist, to say the Holy Spirit is a part of God that was birthed so to speak means that HE was not original, that He is not eternal because He has not always existed, even if it were only for a moment. I understand what you mean about trying to explain the Trinity to anyone, it's difficult at best and may be best explained as one of the mysteries of GOD. My intentions are to understand your beliefs and to poke at them as you put it is a way of showing that we disagree up to the point of the poke, nothing more.
OK... I can understand your confusion. But it is also mine! Lets face it, the Trinity will never be explained fully until we are actually there! But, because the Holy Spirit is used in a "Ghost" or "Spirit" form sense by God it suggests that it is something else: The "Holy Spirit decended upon Jesus as a Dove, when baptised by John". And, "Jesus breathed on His disciples and they received The Holy Spirit as tongues of Fire on their heads".
That is why I used the "family" metaphor. What better way to describe a completely loving unity? I, as I'm sure many others "can" be completely happy with "just" their family unit!
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RE: 10 questions for your pastor
October 9, 2012 at 10:55 am
Quote:That is why I used the "family" metaphor. What better way to describe a completely loving unity?
Apparently, you don't have a lot of experience with "families."
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RE: 10 questions for your pastor
October 9, 2012 at 11:50 am
(October 9, 2012 at 10:55 am)Minimalist Wrote: Quote:That is why I used the "family" metaphor. What better way to describe a completely loving unity?
Apparently, you don't have a lot of experience with "families."
I have 9 children! 
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RE: 10 questions for your pastor
October 9, 2012 at 6:30 pm
rondee Wrote:Plus...as most theists know, to REALLY try to explain the complexity of the Trinity is an exercise in futility!
Perhaps that is because it is a nonsensical concept?
Godschild Wrote:I understand what you mean about trying to explain the Trinity to anyone, it's difficult at best and may be best explained as one of the mysteries of GOD.
[See question above]
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: 10 questions for your pastor
October 9, 2012 at 6:34 pm
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2012 at 6:34 pm by Darkstar.)
Mystery of god=Makes no  sense
The biggest mystery of god is how he could even possibly exist without the universe (infinitely less complex) existing first. Of course, one must suspend a certain amount of disbelief in order to properly enjoy a work of fiction.
John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
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RE: 10 questions for your pastor
October 9, 2012 at 10:21 pm
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2012 at 10:26 pm by ronedee.)
(October 9, 2012 at 6:30 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Perhaps that is because it is a nonsensical concept?
should we say the same about gravity?
(October 9, 2012 at 6:34 pm)Darkstar Wrote: Mystery of god=Makes no sense
The biggest mystery of god is how he could even possibly exist without the universe (infinitely less complex) existing first. Of course, one must suspend a certain amount of disbelief in order to properly enjoy a work of fiction.
Think of it this way: we = a box of rocks... and God is Einstein!
Doesn't become much clearer now? 
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