Solarwave,

I was not claiming that you are delusional because I have no evidence to support such a claim. I was simply explaining how that is one possible interpretation of testimony that appears to be sincere. Another example of a slight delusion would be praying for someone to be cured from cancer, watching them go through chemo then praising God when the person is healed while claiming that it is miraculous. I can't cover every eventuallity and can only assess your experience based on what you tell me and how eloquent you are in the telling.

Rhizo

Ok, I'll explain my experience better next time but for now im going to bed

(September 29, 2009 at 4:10 am)solarwave Wrote: Gods reacts to our prays so it makes a difference (im researching an essay on this at the moment actually )

But it's entirely up to his Will whether he obeys them or not. So...he will only even have a chance of obeying your prayers if you put your hands together, or demonstrate it in your way? I don't get that because: Why do you even need to bother praying, if he can read your mind? He knows your wishes. And he knows if you're sincere or not in your wanting them, and if they're justified or not.

(September 29, 2009 at 4:10 am)solarwave Wrote: The placebo effect is the effect of faith... and that is just what faith is: a placebo. The placebo is fine when a person is not truly sick... but when a person is in true need of medical attention: a placebo will do them no good.

So is it just a coincidence then, that the placebo effect is never shown, and any reported "miracles" are never shown, to ever heal amputees? I guess it's not on God's Agenda? Either he doesn't care about that, doesn't see it as a priority, or it's something he can't do, meaning he's not omnipotent, right?

And indeed, when a person is very sick, a placebo effect alone won't do any good. That's where science comes in.

EvF

(September 29, 2009 at 6:13 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: But it's entirely up to his Will whether he obeys them or not. So...he will only even have a chance of obeying your prayers if you put your hands together, or demonstrate it in your way? I don't get that because: Why do you even need to bother praying, if he can read your mind? He knows your wishes.

You limit praying to putting your hands together... etc. Why isn't praying also what you are asking/ formulating in your mind? (it is BTW).

(September 29, 2009 at 6:13 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: And he knows if you're sincere or not in your wanting them, and if they're justified or not.

Precisely.

Why does anyone bother putting their hands together - or any other outward display - then if he can basically just read their mind? Are all those Christians wasting effort then?

EvF

(September 29, 2009 at 5:21 pm)Rhizomorph13 Wrote: I was not claiming that you are delusional because I have no evidence to support such a claim. I was simply explaining how that is one possible interpretation of testimony that appears to be sincere. Another example of a slight delusion would be praying for someone to be cured from cancer, watching them go through chemo then praising God when the person is healed while claiming that it is miraculous. I can't cover every eventuallity and can only assess your experience based on what you tell me and how eloquent you are in the telling.

They also lie.

Solarwave,

If some one had a missing limb and it was replaced, that would be HUGE news. As it is you need to supply a source and that source better be reliable and there better be independent reliable skeptics like good ol' James Randi verifying that it's true.

As the internet says "Pics or it didn't happen"

Quote:As the internet says "Pics or it didn't happen"

As photoshop says, "Pics and it didnt happen"

There will always be yellow journalism, so the source better be very trusted, and I personally would have to see a "miracle of god" before believing it was god responsible.

I agree tbf I too would have to see a miracle of God in person and then be able to verify all of the evidence.In the case of an amputee regaining a lost limb I would have to have his medical records to confirm whether he was an amputee in the first place either by birth or accident.I would have to interview the doctor and check his credentials with the AMA and that is just for starters, I would want to meet everyone who knew the individual as an amputee.If there were xrays available I would have to see those too.etc etc. before I become convinced pics or video just wont do it for me since they can both be altered.And that is a whole new investigation unto itself to verify the authenticity of the video or pics with photo and video analysis experts.

(September 29, 2009 at 7:23 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Why does anyone bother putting their hands together - or any other outward display - then if he can basically just read their mind? Are all those Christians wasting effort then?

We're human and we express ourselves physically. Some people feel the need to prostrate themselves. Others can do that in the mind. You do what you need to do.

EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Why does anyone bother putting their hands together - or any other outward display - then if he can basically just read their mind? Are all those Christians wasting effort then?

They do it because God loves the attention and outward expression of his "servants" or shall we say slaves?They are admonished to do so myriad times throughout the bible God loves for people to fan his vain glorious tail feathers.

1 Chronicles 16:23-26
23.Sing unto the LORD, all the earth; shew forth from day to day his salvation.
24.Declare his glory among the heathen; his marvellous works among all nations.
25.For great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised: he also is to be feared above all gods.
26.For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens.

Not to mention God himself demands worship!
Exodus 20:24
24An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.
Oh and fr0d0 you forgot because the bible tells me so!Not because it is a form of human expression although that is the most logical answer.