(November 18, 2012 at 4:34 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Freedom of thought is important. Freedom to express one's thoughts (freedom of speech) is equally as important. In this regard, freedom of religion is the same as freedom of speech.

But in the case of religion, it isn't like this:
"These are my beliefs."
It's more like:
"This is fact. Because this is fact, here are some things you will now implement into your life. Pound this fact into your head or else we, your religious family, will hate you. Also, you'll burn in hell for all eternity, otherwise.

As much as I don't like it, you are right Tibs. As long as you don't translate racism/xenophobia/murder/etc into action you are free to think the way you want.

(November 18, 2012 at 4:41 pm)LastPoet Wrote: As much as I don't like it, you are right Tibs. As long as you don't translate racism/xenophobia/murder/etc into action you are free to think the way you want.

So that brings us back to the initial question. Parents forcing their beliefs on their children and hating them if they reject said beliefs is definitely translating their beliefs into action. Sure, it isn't blowing up abortion clinics, but it is still bad (though not illegal).

Oh rubish! All this "freedom" talk! One only has to look at countries in which the asshole part of mankind has the upper hand on defining justice and education.
Places like Saudi Arabia and Iran, where kids are tought at school that Jews and Women are the cause of all evil - and then look what wonderfull adults they turn out to be, with excelent piloting skills.

In a Republic, a democratic sociaty, political opinion is formed through the individual thoughtprocess of the mature and educated adult - indoctrination, especialy of minors has no place in the democratic sociaty.
Instead minors should be educated until they are adults with factual knowlege.

I want to see what is so "progessive" and "liberal" about indoctrenating your kids into seeing the world through a narrow view, under influences such as religious fundermentalism, sexism and\or racism.

Education is not democracy, neighter is knowlege. There is a right and there is a wrong. The earth is not 8000 years old. point. and teaching otherwise combined with a total ignorance for reality should be prohibited.

Darkstar, as much it eats me inside, people thinking racism, homeschooling, religious indoctrination aren't accountable untill their thoughts translate into actions against others. Imagine a truly evil person that lives and dies without putting their thoughts into action: is that person deserving of judgement'

Adults bringing their children to church is action. If the child doesn't want to go, it's child abuse.

(November 18, 2012 at 4:34 pm)Tiberius Wrote:

(November 18, 2012 at 4:28 pm)Kousbroek Wrote: Alright i agree, but at least society says that it is wrong and if you do it openly you will be punished by law.

In the UK you will, as with most of the supposedly "progressive" Europe. The US still has the right idea on this issue. Freedom of thought is important. Freedom to express one's thoughts (freedom of speech) is equally as important. In this regard, freedom of religion is the same as freedom of speech.

Does that mean you can say whatever you want ?
Not in Holland and mind you our level of freedom of speech is quite high.

(November 18, 2012 at 4:50 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Darkstar, as much it eats me inside, people thinking racism, homeschooling, religious indoctrination aren't accountable untill their thoughts translate into actions against others. Imagine a truly evil person that lives and dies without putting their thoughts into action: is that person deserving of judgement'

Perhaps you missed my point. I'm sayig that teaching your children to be racist, illogical religious zealots is action. I didn't say it was child abuse, necessarily, but it is allowing their thoughts to become action, even if not physically violent action. Also, wouldn't protesting against gay rights be considered action as well?

Up until this thread, I thought there should be absolutely no restrictions on speech. How can you call it 'free speech' if you're not truly free to say anything?

Yes, you should be free to say anything, except if teaching beliefs as fact to impressionable children.

(November 18, 2012 at 4:54 pm)Kousbroek Wrote: Does that mean you can say whatever you want ?
Not in Holland and mind you our level of freedom of speech is quite high.

So long as it doesn't physically endanger people, (false bomb threats, yelling "fire!" in a dark theater, etc.) yes.