(October 2, 2009 at 10:41 am)chatpilot Wrote: Lmao Dotard! Solar the problem I have with Christianity in particular is that we are all being punished for something we had nothing to do with. As if sin was a genetic disorder we inherited the sins of Adam and Eve. Why punish and make accountable all of humanity for the sins of one couple over 6,000 years ago? That in my view is like punishing me for a crime that my brother committed. Makes me think that your Gods idea of judgement is skewed.

I don't believe we are punished because of Adams sin. Think that it should be seen as a sinful tendency that everyone has. We are judged by our own actions not our fathers. There are verses in the Bible which say this.

(October 3, 2009 at 1:51 am)Retorth Wrote: I'm having an exchange with fr0d0 about this in the "Evidence!" thread coincidentally, and that (not the exchange but the idea of "free will" with regards to god) is something I find odd.

You think you have free will to do gods will but that is because you are doing something that he wants you to do so it "works out nicely", so to speak. However, if god does indeed give us free will, I should have the right to choose not to do his will if I so desire. If he condemns me for not doing his will then that is not free will.

I think I define free will as being able to choose otherwise. I could kill someone freely but I will be condemed and sent to prison. Reguardless of being locked up for it the action was my free choice. God is just and so has to punish unforgiven sin.

(October 3, 2009 at 3:15 pm)solarwave Wrote: I think I define free will as being able to choose otherwise. I could kill someone freely but I will be condemed and sent to prison. Reguardless of being locked up for it the action was my free choice. God is just and so has to punish unforgiven sin.

I agree with the fact that you can choose to commit murder in free will but you are punished for it. However, when it comes to believing in god, I do not see how it is applicable. He gave us free will to choice to believe or not...yet he condemns us if we don't? Indecisive! Unfair too, I might add.

The fact that we are free doesn't mean there arn't consequences to our actions. I hope my post in the hell thread explain it better, but by the nature of sin it must be punished.

Free will or not, if he knows everything, then why would he get mad or be suprised by any single thing we do? That just seems retarded.

Who ever said God was supprised? Im guessing you mean God lol

He seemed quite disappointed in the bible that his creations were sinning. If he is all-knowing, he would have expected it would he not?

You can still be disappointed but not supprised cant you

(October 4, 2009 at 2:15 pm)solarwave Wrote: You can still be disappointed but not supprised cant you

You can't be disappointed about a situation that not only you knew about but also created can you?

(October 4, 2009 at 2:15 pm)solarwave Wrote: You can still be disappointed but not supprised cant you

If he knew it would happen all along, being omniscience and omnipotent as he is, he would probably have been disappointed before the creation process. What a screw up


It's like signing up for some course and going for the exam without ever studying, knowing you're going to fail. Why bother, seriously? LOL

solarwave said: "I don't believe we are punished because of Adams sin. Think that it should be seen as a sinful tendency that everyone has. We are judged by our own actions not our fathers. There are verses in the Bible which say this."

Although there are passages in the bible that say that the sons will not be punished for the sins of their fathers the bible does have passages recognizing that we are being punished for the sins of Adam.
Romans 5:12-14,18,19

12.Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13.(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14.Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
18.Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19.For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.