Man, why didn't Kosh in Babylon 5 brought the awesomness of the Vorlon Race to help sheridan fight the Shadows? Why didn't goku gone super sayan mode before frieza killed his friends? Plot devices, they exist in all fiction

(December 6, 2012 at 7:58 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Because in the end it served God to do so.

Makes your god something of a cocksucker, eh.


BTW, drippy, you making excuses for a photo of Hitler coming out of a fucking church does not change the fact that Hitler was in the fucking church.

Just where he belongs if you ask me. You guys have a lot in common.




I'll bet you can pull an explanation for this one out of your ass, too.

I thought you were leaving. Don't you ever tell the truth?

from 1920 to 1938 The National socialist Workers Party in Germany was just another political party. One who came to power taking care of Post WWI Germany's poor, hungery, and homless working class. So in that time they had the full support of the church till in I believe 36 or 38 Hitler issed a decree seperating germany from the offical R/C church and established a state version of it. So whether it be pre- seperation church or post seperation church Hitler would have clergy support. After all Not everyone who just so happen to live in germany in that time period was Evil, but all did belong to or rather fall under the Authority of the Nazis.

Quote:For if Hitler comes first then when ever his "morality" strays away from God's, the the Nazi party leader is to follow Hilter and not the churches.

I corrected it for you. The documents doesn't even mention god. Of course Hitler wanted completed allegiance. He certainly didn't want to obey the Pope, or anyone else for that matter. But he wasn't an atheist. He actively persecuted atheists. That's what I proved.

Quote:Oh I don't know lets say in a couple months hitler decides to kill millions of Jews, that sort of thing. a Person who 'morals' were tied to his culture to his "Führer without any reservations."

Nazi Germany's anti-semitism was Catholic in origin, a fact acknowledged by Hitler himself. While a few anti-semites thought that Hitler was going too far when he ordered to kill all the Jews, they were more than glad to have have them rounded in ghettos and persecuted for years.

The Catholic Church and many protestant churches actively supported and encouraged fascism and nazism.

Quote:eep Reading. He was not happy with the circumstance, but He still honored God's right to do what He willed. (for a long while.)

In my sentence, "to be happy with" meant "to tolerate". Job never rejected what god was doing to him as evil. Of course in your mind god can do whatever he wants, so there's no point in arguing this against you.

I'm merely pointing out that your god is a vicious bastard. You like it that way. Fair enough. This tells me that you really like vicious bastards as long as they're powerful.

[quote='Kirbmarc' pid='371253' dateline='1354891075']
[quote]I corrected it for you. The documents doesn't even mention god. [/quote]Are you falling for the Nazi propaganda like the Germans did??? You spliting Hairs and using this document just like it is intended to be used. for it mentions the body of Christ. How Can one mention the Body of Christ and not intend to also include Christ himself?

[quote]Of course Hitler wanted completed allegiance. He certainly didn't want to obey the Pope, or anyone else for that matter.[/quote]Including God. Nor did He want His leaders to have a morality' Based on anything other than what he has approved.

[quote] But he wasn't an atheist. He actively persecuted atheists. That's what I proved.[/quote]Ah, no. you proved that you even now with the benfit of hind sight (all of the things Hitler's germany did with this propaganda) are still subceptiable to the orginal intent the orginal 'feeling' these letters and speaches were meant to envoke. In truth Hitler seperated himself and all of germeny from the established Church and built his own version of it as a way to control non-radical germans. He has made speach after speach first aligning himself with the idea of church but seperating that Idea from the established church and it's established views. Why? Because in the established Christian Church their is no way to justify "the final solution" He had for the Jewish problem. so he used the outline of authority and power the church had over the german people removed the established leadership and inserted his own. that way (much like the popes have done for the R/C chruch) he can change the bible to match what every new doctrine or direction he has for germany. Only a fool would openly deny the church, and God outright in that position. Hitler used the church or rather used the idea of the church to make his policies, german 'morality.'



[quote]Oh I don't know lets say in a couple months hitler decides to kill millions of Jews, that sort of thing. a Person who 'morals' were tied to his culture to his "Führer without any reservations."[/quote]

[quote]Nazi Germany's anti-semitism was Catholic in origin, a fact acknowledged by Hitler himself. [/quote]Then show me. show me the acknoweledgement on one of the documents from the archive I have been quoting. Everything 'we' have on Nazi germany has been translated and archived, their is even a search..
Untill you provide such 'proof' I will have to differ my understanding as to why Hitler/nazi's hated the Jews to what History tells us. "they blamed them for ending WWI too earily, they blamed them for the Harsh sanctions imposed by the winning countries of WWI, They blamed them for the lack of national pride, they blamed them for 'mixing' with pure areion blood thus weaking the great german race. Basically anything and everything that was perceived to be wrong with Germany was the fault of the Jews.
http://www.historyking.com/World-War/wor...-Jews.html

[quote]The Catholic Church and many protestant churches actively supported and encouraged fascism and nazism.[/quote]Then why did he feel the need to seperate Germany from the R/C Church?
This is what [u]The Nazi Party’s Central Propaganda Office[u/] had to say:
Where does the German Catholic Stand?

"The German Catholic knows what he has to do. National Socialist Germany has never hindered or refused him the right to stay true to his Catholic faith, and to practice his religion. In political and cultural life, however, he is and remains a German, for he has had to learn over the years of shameful decline that political Catholicism led the people to ruin, and that under its rule the Godless kept growing in strength. Knowing his duty to the people and the state, the German Catholic affirms without hesitation the cause of his people.

It was Adolf Hitler who took up the battle against the Godless Marxist movement, and led it to victory. It was Adolf Hitler who freed German Catholicism and Protestantism, the German churches in general, from the confusion of partisan and religious conflict. In his speech in Berlin on 23 March 1933, Adolf Hitler said:

“The national government sees in the two Christian confessions the most important factor in preserving our ethnicity. It will respect the agreements between them and the German provinces. Their rights will not be touched. It expects and hopes, however, that the tasks the government has undertaken for national and moral renewal will receive the same respect. It will treat other religions with objective justice. However, it cannot tolerate it if membership in a certain religion or a certain race results in ignoring general legal obligations, or even is seen as a license for criminal deeds, or the toleration of crimes. The government wants proper relations between church and state.”

The Führer’s words are the German people’s words! The German people demands a strict separation of politics and religion! The German people wants to see priests who serve God, but who do not egotistically seek after political power! The German Catholic demands the destruction of political Catholicism, so that the Catholic faith will not be harmed. — The German Catholic raises the cry: Away with all obscurantists! "


Hmmm I've seem to have Heard that phrase recently: "Seperation of Chruch and state." I'm sure whomever wants that sort of thing knows the potential of it and would not be so foolish as to repeat History just 2 or 3 Generations outside of this example..

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/rim5.htm

[quote]In my sentence, "to be happy with" meant "to tolerate". Job never rejected what god was doing to him as evil. Of course in your mind god can do whatever he wants, so there's no point in arguing this against you. [/quote]

[quote]I'm merely pointing out that your god is a vicious bastard. You like it that way. Fair enough. This tells me that you really like vicious bastards as long as they're powerful.[/quote]What I want to point out is the potential for anyone to be a 'vicious bastard" if the person making that Judgement dislikes them for any reason. Bob Ross the PBS painter (do a google search if you do not know who he was) could be considered a "vicious bastard" by anyone else for any number of reasons. The point being if you have your ownset of morals and beliefs, then you can judge anyone or anything anyway you like. the only real question is what authority do you have to make that judgement count for anything?

Hehehe, oh ffs.....go ahead Drich, give us all those various reasons that Bob Ross is a viscious bastard........









Never in my life....have I seen such idiocy presented so shamelessly.

(December 7, 2012 at 10:03 am)Kirbmarc Wrote: The main difference being?

God has rights over people that people don't have over each other.

Quote:So if I invented an artificial intelligence I would be free to do to him whatever I want.

Yes. If it starts worshipping god and that pisses you off, you can shut it down if you like.

Quote:If failing to worship a psychopath who plays with the lives of innocent people to win a bet is a shortcoming, I'm proud of this shortcoming.

No, the shortcoming is the inability to understand you fellow man.

A lot of atheists say "I can't understand why a theist..." They think that's an argument against the ... somehow, when really it's just an admission of their own inability to understand others. I can understand a variety of reasons that atheists believe as they do.

Quote:I'd be interested in your reading your assumptions of my reasons for not worshipping this repulsive jerk, but I'm sure that you would just say that I'm either too dumb to understand your point (and this, my friend, is blatantly untrue: what you are saying amounts to "might makes right", it's not that difficult to understand even for my limited intellect) or that I'm inherently evil (because I don't kiss the ass of a genocide dictactor who torments an innocent for kicks).

I'd say it's a combination of lack of evidence, disagreement with God's rules and actions regarding men, disagreement on the rights of a creator, disagreement that people in general are evil.

(December 7, 2012 at 10:18 am)Drich Wrote: blah blah blah

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Wake me up when he's carried out his threat to leave.

(December 7, 2012 at 12:18 pm)John V Wrote: God has rights over people that people don't have over each other.

Why? How were these rights conferred? What are they?

Quote:Yes. If it starts worshipping god and that pisses you off, you can shut it down if you like.

I suppose I could...but that wouldn't say anything flattering about me now would it?

Too bad for you Drippy that this letter was written in 1939 by newly appointed popenfuhrer, Pius XII, the former Eugenio Pacelli who negotiated the concordat between the church and the Reich.

Quote:On March 2, 1939: Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli was sworn in as Pope Pius XII; four days later (as Hitler’s tanks are rolling into Poland).

Pacelli wrote a letter to Hitler: "To the illustrious Herr Aldolf Hitler, Fuhrer and chancellor of the German Reich! Here at the beginning of our pontificate we wish to assure you that we remain devoted to the spiritual welfare of the German people entrusted to your leadership. During the many years we spent in Germany, we did all in our power to establish harmonious relations between church and state. Now that the responsibilities of our pastoral function have increased our opportunities, how much more ardently do we pray to reach that goal? May the prosperity of the German people and their progress in every domain come, with Gods help, to fruition!"

But, of course,

Quote:"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.

- Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941

Again, why are you still here. Can't find the door?

(December 7, 2012 at 12:21 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Why? How were these rights conferred? What are they?

They were conferred by creation. They're pretty much anything. And no, parenting isn't creation in this sense. Creation of AI would be closer.

Quote:I suppose I could...but that wouldn't say anything flattering about me now would it?

I don't see that it would be flattering. It wouldn't necessarily be unflattering. It's simply your choice.