wow!! this went from discussing the doctrinal lie called hell to talking about lambs and food. I guess they should change the name of this thread to: "What do you like to eat?" lol

(October 8, 2009 at 4:10 am)leo-rcc Wrote:

(October 7, 2009 at 5:04 pm)Saerules Wrote: Really? I don't commonly eat either(?)... so I wouldn't know But mutton I would usually attributed to adult sheep flesh, although the meat shouldn't change too much through maturation of the sheep... so it should still be a word that can describe just plain out 'sheep meat'.

As the diet of the young animal changes, so does the flavour of the meat that comes of it. We even make a distiction between the young that have only had milk to feed on from the ones that started to eat grass. It makes a huge difference in flavour.

Oh, that does make sense when you put it that way

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(October 8, 2009 at 12:03 pm)chatpilot Wrote: wow!! this went from discussing the doctrinal lie called hell to talking about lambs and food. I guess they should change the name of this thread to: "What do you like to eat?" lol

Bizarre how we do that, eh?

Very bizarre but funny

What!? you expect a thread on the atheist forum to stay on topic? I laugh every time I select a thread and notice that what we are talking about in said thread sometimes doesn't even belong in the category of the thread, let alone what the topic is. Funny indeed!

Rhizo

(October 7, 2009 at 11:34 am)Ace Wrote: Ever heard of lack of evidence? There is no evidence to suggest that jesus was god. I reject the claim you've made. There is every reason to.

So you know for a fact there is no evidence and theres no possiblility you may have missed it?

Quote:

Quote:Doesn't sound fair to reject the God who died for you ether

You have yet to provide evidence for your assertions.

Your last comment was criticism assuming there was a God so I replied on that assumption too.

Quote:

Quote:If scientific evidence is the only way to know God properly how would have people known God before modern science came along?

It's called using your imagination.

I mean assume there is a God for a second and according to you you seem to say the only real evidence in scientific evidence. In that case how would people have known God before modern science?

(October 7, 2009 at 11:54 am)chatpilot Wrote: solar you love to harp on about Jesus dying for our sins etc. But when you come to think of it what kind of sacrifice did he do if he came back to life? A sacrifice usually implies dying as in the animals sacrificed in the O.T. and staying dead. Where the shedding of your blood would be the atonement for your sins.

Not only that but crucifixion was a common practice in the Roman empire so it's not like Jesus if he ever existed was the only one ever crucified in history. There are several things that convince me that Jesus as an historical figure did not exist.
1. There is no secular evidence outside of the scriptures that he existed.
2. His coming back to life nullifies his sacrifice.
3. There is no evidence that he was "the Son of God".

When you really think about it many people have suffered 10 times over what Jesus allegedly suffered. If you have any doubts about that ask any living Holocaust survivor. Even the church martyrs suffered more horrible and painful deaths than Christ.

Jesus death has alot to do with explaining hell and is also one of the main points of christianity.

1) There are other books other than the bible that talk about Jesus. At the very least you have to accept He was a real man who preached, was crucified by romans and who diciples thought was Lord. To think anything else is not historical, be it an atheist or theist historian.
2) I don't think the sacrifice is just based on the horrible pain of the cross or dying. In fact I think the thing that hurt Jesus the most was having the sins of the world put on Him and being separated from the Father. Isn't it a huge act of humility for the creator of the universe to be born as a creature then ripped and killed by the ones He created and having their sin put on Him as He dies by their hands?
3) I think there is

Quote:So you know for a fact there is no evidence and theres no possiblility you may have missed it?

Not at any point did I say there is no possibility that I missed it. I haven't seen any scientific evidence that jesus ever existed or that he was god and so I don't believe in it. If you think I've missed something then please present the evidence I missed.

Quote:Your last comment was criticism assuming there was a God so I replied on that assumption too.

I can reply to it and so here, it isn't fair for god to torture moral people. Now in response to this one, good dodge! So you won't be providing any evidence for your assertions?

Quote:I mean assume there is a God for a second and according to you you seem to say the only real evidence in scientific evidence. In that case how would people have known God before modern science?

The scientific method is a process of gaining knowledge. To bring up hypothesis and then to experiment, test and measure all we can to find any supporting evidence for that hypothesis. Now the god concept came about long before the scientific method and so was never really pressured for evidence. Anyone can think up a god. Science is a method of fact finding/knowledge gaining. I also find it very strangely convenient how god doesn't need to be put through the rigorous testing and research of science. The only excuse on why god is able to go round the security gate is because he/it is supposedly beyond everything.

How strangely convenient...

(October 8, 2009 at 5:41 pm)Ace Wrote: Not at any point did I say there is no possibility that I missed it. I haven't seen any scientific evidence that jesus ever existed or that he was god and so I don't believe in it. If you think I've missed something then please present the evidence I missed.

Fair enough

Quote: I can reply to it and so here, it isn't fair for god to torture moral people. Now in response to this one, good dodge! So you won't be providing any evidence for your assertions?

Good and moral people according to whos standard? No not at the moment because things like that take along time which I havn't had recently when posting.

Quote:The scientific method is a process of gaining knowledge. To bring up hypothesis and then to experiment, test and measure all we can to find any supporting evidence for that hypothesis. Now the god concept came about long before the scientific method and so was never really pressured for evidence. Anyone can think up a god. Science is a method of fact finding/knowledge gaining. I also find it very strangely convenient how god doesn't need to be put through the rigorous testing and research of science. The only excuse on why god is able to go round the security gate is because he/it is supposedly beyond everything.

I think we can in some ways. Such as, there is a christian God (hypothesis ), based on this there are a number of ways you would expect God to act in the world and certain things not possible otherwise. If those turn out to be true then it is likely the christian God is real.
On the other hand wouldn't you have thought if anything was beyond scientific testing it would be the creator?

(October 8, 2009 at 12:03 pm)chatpilot Wrote: wow!! this went from discussing the doctrinal lie called hell to talking about lambs and food. I guess they should change the name of this thread to: "What do you like to eat?" lol

Yeah,I've noticed that happens when people become bored or irritated with a thread.

If I have my druthers, I'd druther talk about a pink,juicy crown roast of yearling lamb than about hell,where there may well be no lamb at all.

Strangely, I eat seldom eat lamb or hogget any more,too fatty. I buy chicken and beef mainly,in bulk.
This week; mixed chicken pieces @ $2. 99a kg, boned chicken thigh $8.45kg, whole beef rump $7.99kg. (sliced free)

Be interested in meat prices where you live.






PS: a crown roast is made from a piece of trimmed loin. At barbecues we traditionally eat the large shoulder chops.


PPS the notion of an eternal hell is a Christian invention. (Saul,I think) It does not exist in Judaism.

Quote:Good and moral people according to whos standard?

Nature. We are naturally social by nature, in other words moral by nature. God had nothing to do with it.

Quote:No not at the moment because things like that take along time which I havn't had recently when posting.

I'll take that as a dodge.

Quote:I think we can in some ways. Such as, there is a christian God (hypothesis ), based on this there are a number of ways you would expect God to act in the world and certain things not possible otherwise.

Could you be specific? Also do you have evidence?

Quote: If those turn out to be true then it is likely the christian God is real.

Why the christian god? Why not thor, odin, zeus, oisis? What makes the christian god more real than any other made up character?

(October 9, 2009 at 5:11 am)padraic Wrote: PPS the notion of an eternal hell is a Christian invention. (Saul,I think) It does not exist in Judaism.

Almost entirely yes but...

Psalm 9:17 "The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God."

Isiah 33:14 "The sinners in Zion are terrified; trembling grips the godless: "Who of us can dwell with the consuming fire? Who of us can dwell with everlasting burning?""