(January 3, 2013 at 3:51 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(January 3, 2013 at 1:17 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: I agree apart from according to many on here the certainty that GOD does not exist.

Everyone who is certain a deist God does not exist, please raise your hand. In the last thread in which I asked this, we got one, maybe we can do better here.

I go further than just a "deist" concept. There are new agers who think the universe itself is some sort of cognition, which would be nothing more than a si fi version of superstition.

I do assert that as it stands scientifically, knowing that the only place thoughts occur is in evolutionary processes, to postulate any "God" or "god" is absurd.

Thoughts are an emergent property of evolution, not a starting point. And there is far too much baggage that Ocham's Razor and the problem with infinite regress cause to make any god claim credible, either logically or scientifically.

So I do assert that when given the following choices.

1. Gods are real

vs

2. Humans make up gods

I don't think there is a debate at all. There are just humans who like the idea of having a super hero.

So no, god as the popular concepts postulated now are an absurdity. I do assert that a God or god cannot exist.

(January 3, 2013 at 3:44 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote:

(January 3, 2013 at 3:39 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: That comment dropped my opinion of you considerably. Are there more than one of you?

was there something wrong with the maths?

What's scientifically untestable can't be a part of science. Math can't fix that. It's not a theory if it can't be tested. It's not even a hypothesis if it can't be tested in principle. For God to be part of a scientific theory, it would have to be possible to prove that God is NOT the correct explanation. Probability doesn't enter into it at all.

Mark 13:13 Wrote:...and maybe explore where that would lead for you and maybe even try an experiment and ask God if he exists to come into your life.

What makes you so certain that no one here has done that before?

(January 3, 2013 at 4:03 pm)Brian37 Wrote: So no, god as the popular concepts postulated now are an absurdity. I do assert that a God or god cannot exist.

That's one. How many do we need to conclude it's 'many', as Matthew asserts?

(January 3, 2013 at 4:05 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(January 3, 2013 at 4:03 pm)Brian37 Wrote: So no, god as the popular concepts postulated now are an absurdity. I do assert that a God or god cannot exist.

That's one. How many do we need to conclude it's 'many', as Matthew asserts?

Why should we be concerned with what he nakedly asserts. If he had something, like I said in prior posts, and would say to anyone with any pet invisible friend claim, if any of them had something, they'd be able to take it to the patent office and win a Noble prize. But don't allow believers of any stripe to dare us to do their homework for them.

He has nothing, he just doesn't realize it yet.

(January 3, 2013 at 4:04 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

Mark 13:13 Wrote:...and maybe explore where that would lead for you and maybe even try an experiment and ask God if he exists to come into your life.

What makes you so certain that no one here has done that before?

I'm far from certain, I would actually believe that its likely many have come out of some form or religious background and through some process or other lost faith. But i don't believe that it can't be regained and ( don't start screaming at me every time I mention Bible ) there are several stories in the bible where Christ for whatever reason made some people work a little harder before he helped them. Even the chosen people had to endure 40 days in the desert before they got to the promised land.

That's like saying people with demonstrated propensity towards stupidity are more likely to rise to the occassion and act stupidity.

It is no surprise that a bullshit holy book calculated to promote and exploit stupidity would be found to contain, Lord bless me, stories about how the holy man who is also not a man fucked his own mother to give himself birth would happen to encoruage acts and thoughts of stupidity so as to make himself easier to sell.

I'll allow whatever I like, Brian.

(January 3, 2013 at 4:03 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(January 3, 2013 at 3:44 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: was there something wrong with the maths?

What's scientifically untestable can't be a part of science. Math can't fix that. It's not a theory if it can't be tested. It's not even a hypothesis if it can't be tested in principle. For God to be part of a scientific theory, it would have to be possible to prove that God is NOT the correct explanation. Probability doesn't enter into it at all.

You are using the word Theory in a very tight band in order to exclude GOD. out of curiousity what is the difference between a theory and a fact?

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(January 3, 2013 at 4:14 pm)Chuck Wrote: That's like saying people with demonstrated propensity towards stupidity are more likely to rise to the occassion and act stupidity.

It is no surprise that a bullshit holy book calculated to promote and exploit stupidity would be found to contain, Lord bless me, stories about how the holy man who is also not a man fucked his own mother to give himself birth would happen to encoruage acts and thoughts of stupidity so as to make himself easier to sell.

Lets keep this honest at least within the frameworks of our beliefs

"Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." the only corporal being her is Mary, everything else is a spiritual interaction.

(January 3, 2013 at 4:12 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote:

(January 3, 2013 at 4:04 pm)Faith No More Wrote: What makes you so certain that no one here has done that before?

I'm far from certain, I would actually believe that its likely many have come out of some form or religious background and through some process or other lost faith. But i don't believe that it can't be regained and ( don't start screaming at me every time I mention Bible ) there are several stories in the bible where Christ for whatever reason made some people work a little harder before he helped them. Even the chosen people had to endure 40 days in the desert before they got to the promised land.

If you don't want us screaming about your bible quotes then don't use them. No one is forcing you to post at this website. If you have evidence, which you think you do, then have at it. But we kick the tires here and if the heat is too much for you, then maybe this is not the right place for you. Don't torture yourself if you are uncomfortable.

We would suggest that if you are feeling uncomfortable about us criticizing your claims, then maybe you need to examine what you believe. It never occurs to you that maybe you got it wrong.

Asking us not to criticize your claims would be like playing an NFL game and only allowing one team to have the ball. Quote the bible all you want but we are still going to respond to that with "circular reasoning".

You don't blindly become a Muslim merely because a Muslim quotes the Koran, so don't ask us to do that either.

We really are not treating you any differently than anyone else. So, either jump in and take the heat(we will not hate you for defending claims we don't find credible) We will not like it much if you waste your time complaining instead of debating. You do yourself no good and you will simply waste your time and ours.

We do want you to stay, but that will not come at the cost of expecting us to simply fold and say "isn't that nice". If we cannot be honest with you and you cannot be honest with yourself, then you really are wasting your time here.

I thought humanity was hurt by believing the sun was a god for so long. I think humanity was hurt for believing the earth was the center of the universe for so long. I think it still hurts humanity today to use religion to oppress women.

If we never questioned social norms we never would have left the caves. So please, stay if you wish, but don't expect us to treat your claims with kid gloves. Kicking the tires is how humans learn. And the claims that can take the shit kicking are the ones most likely to become universal to science and humanity, much like the computers you and I type on.