(January 4, 2013 at 12:35 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Hinduism is the oldest major religion still being practiced today. Is its survival indicative of divine intervention? Christianity had a 500 year head-start on Islam, and it's already grown to surpass Catholicism and Protestantism, just not both combined...yet. Not to mention its dominance in the holy lands of the Middle East. Does that mean Allah is helping them out? Or does that sort of thing only count when talking about Christianity, because Christianity is a special snowflake?

I never said its a proof but I would suggest that given the odds on its survival it is somewhat remarkable. All the survival of other religion can show that for some reason Mankind has always had a need for the spiritual. I would say beyond all reason we have an Instinctive soul awareness for God. Some may have dampened their instinct or suppressed it but it wont go away.

That's actually a hypothesis that can be tested. Would it make one whit of difference in your religious opinions if it were found that is not the case?

(January 4, 2013 at 12:50 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: That's actually a hypothesis that can be tested. Would it make one whit of difference in your religious opinions if it were found that is not the case?

No. but i would be interested in the results of the test.

You might as well have asked "How do you tell the difference between a fire-breathing dragon and a non-fire-breathing one?"

There are no such things as prophets, only those who pretend to be. They prey upon gullible minds, like yours.

By the way, there is no such thing as "Lucifer" or "souls" either.

You're welcome.

Quote:do you believe anyone can have the ability access knowledge through a supernatural means?

Kindly produce evidence that the "supernatural" exists. Personally, I have never seen it.

P.S. I will not be impressed by your personal hallucinations.

(January 4, 2013 at 11:23 am)FallentoReason Wrote: [quote="Mark 13:13"]Interesting and clearly for musicians the inspiration for the prophesies may have come via the language and channels suiting them. But other prophets clearly deal more with imagery such as John the apostle and Daniel. This does not mean that every musician is a prophet but as for me I find music can move me in a very powerful way so that God should use that as a channel for some is no surprise.

(January 4, 2013 at 11:23 am)FallentoReason Wrote: I invest quite a lot of time into music. I used to play in a Christian band but it's strange how our prophesying didn't achieve any results.

How do you know this? My wife is a teacher....many students she never thought she reached have contacted her to tell her about the "profound impact" that she made on their lives! LOL! One kid that praised her, she disciplined constantly, and he gave her migraines!

(January 4, 2013 at 11:23 am)FallentoReason Wrote: On a side note, how ironic is it that God will use music when it says that Lucifer was the master of music...

Who said that? Actually, and more ironically Lucifer was the Angel of Light.

Being a musician myself....my rock-buddies think that Satan is more powerful in the rock arena! This puzzles me!! Why would you want a clearly less superior being as your mentor...not-to-mention the end result!!

(January 3, 2013 at 11:42 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: I still believe that the prophets of the Bible were nothing more than musicians. I made a thread about this and it has practically been unchallenged: http://atheistforums.org/thread-16131.html

Seen something that made me think of your comment. It was a video about origins on language someone on this forum asked me to check. I wonder was the Music link possibly related to making oral transmission of material easier rather than any other reason.

(January 5, 2013 at 12:02 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote:

(January 3, 2013 at 11:42 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: I still believe that the prophets of the Bible were nothing more than musicians. I made a thread about this and it has practically been unchallenged: http://atheistforums.org/thread-16131.html

Seen something that made me think of your comment. It was a video about origins on language someone on this forum asked me to check. I wonder was the Music link possibly related to making oral transmission of material easier rather than any other reason.

Maybe. I'm pretty convinced that e.g. the Iliad and Odyssey were collectively written by bards and not one guy by the name of "Homer". This is because textual analysis of the Greek works reveals that it's got poetic devices that make it easier to remember the story and thus share it orally. Except, with these prophets in the Bible, there's a verse that I quote which quite explicitly says they are "prophesying" through playing their instruments. As in, that is what prophesying is about. I personally don't see anything special about it if that's the case.

(January 5, 2013 at 1:44 pm)FallentoReason Wrote:

(January 5, 2013 at 12:02 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: Seen something that made me think of your comment. It was a video about origins on language someone on this forum asked me to check. I wonder was the Music link possibly related to making oral transmission of material easier rather than any other reason.

Maybe. I'm pretty convinced that e.g. the Iliad and Odyssey were collectively written by bards and not one guy by the name of "Homer". This is because textual analysis of the Greek works reveals that it's got poetic devices that make it easier to remember the story and thus share it orally. Except, with these prophets in the Bible, there's a verse that I quote which quite explicitly says they are "prophesying" through playing their instruments. As in, that is what prophesying is about. I personally don't see anything special about it if that's the case.

i don't disagree but i thought i'd fire of the oral trad idea as I had it as said. Maybe thats why the Irish weren't the chosen people as to write these prophesies or even make sence of them at the speed of an Irish jig might have caused a few problems and the boozy hangover after a good ceile might not have been conducive to good memorising

(January 5, 2013 at 1:44 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: Maybe. I'm pretty convinced that e.g. the Iliad and Odyssey were collectively written by bards and not one guy by the name of "Homer". This is because textual analysis of the Greek works reveals that it's got poetic devices that make it easier to remember the story and thus share it orally. Except, with these prophets in the Bible, there's a verse that I quote which quite explicitly says they are "prophesying" through playing their instruments. As in, that is what prophesying is about. I personally don't see anything special about it if that's the case.

Wikipedia states that this verse refers to a form of worship, and is not referring to prophesying about the future. There may be other references, I don't know.


1 Moreover David and the captains of the army separated for the service some of the sons of Asaph, of Heman, and of Jeduthun, who should prophesy with harps, stringed instruments, and cymbals. And the number of the skilled men performing their service was: 2 Of the sons of Asaph: Zaccur, Joseph, Nethaniah, and Asharelah; the sons of Asaph were under the direction of Asaph, who prophesied according to the order of the king. 3 Of Jeduthun, the sons of Jeduthun: Gedaliah, Zeri, Jeshaiah, Shimei, Hashabiah, and Mattithiah, six, under the direction of their father Jeduthun, who prophesied with a harp to give thanks and to praise the Lord.

1 Chronicles 25:1-3 (NKJV)