I hate the either or debate about sex before marriage.

The real issue is the sex itself, not marriage. I know what I was like as a teen and full of hormones and horny. But I did take needless risk and could have gotten a few women pregnant, and or picked up something without knowing. THAT is the real issue.

Planning and knowing your body and how it works and the risks involved and the safty needed ,and knowing your partner, Not marriage vs not getting married.

The bottom line if you don't want a baby or a desease, the best thing is to not have sex. Barring that, wrap it and any genatile or anal fluid exchange "blow jobs do count", can transmit desease.

(January 5, 2013 at 6:39 am)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote:

(January 5, 2013 at 6:23 am)Al-Fatihah Wrote: I never stated anyone had nonconsensual sex.

Quote:No one stated sex is not supposed to be sexual.

Quote:No one said it couldn't. Halfway though my response and you still haven't addressed anything.

jet earlier you posted:

Quote:What's wrong is that lust is the idea of having sex to please yourself

Quote:There is nothing wrong in having one's sex life controlled when the control is simply to prevent the act of being used sexually.

Quote: It is not just a muslim thing not to take the rule against sex before marriage seriously

Oh dear.

I guess that makes you a dishonest poster.

Response: You just proved my point, as nothing in my post says the words "anyone had nonconsensual sex". Debunked as usual.

(January 5, 2013 at 6:39 am)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: You have replied by quoting my original post, by editing it to have a meaning it didn`t have in it`s original form!

This is against the forum rules!

You have 2 hours to edit your post or I will report you!

Response: Nope. It's the same foolish post of yours in it's original form. So you need a few hours to quit crying with the nonsense. Get back to me when you're finish.

(January 5, 2013 at 6:39 am)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: Human sex ratio clearly states that there are 105 men for 100 women on average.

FACTS!

Response: The ratio is based on birth, not current population. DEBUNKD!!!

(January 5, 2013 at 6:39 am)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: Are you that thick!

The requirement for charity being that one has to marry the impoverished person is the part I call sick.

Need a drawing!?

Response: Which is the same part that makes your ideology sick for stating such idiocy. Need a cell block?

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(January 5, 2013 at 8:53 am)paulpablo Wrote: you claim that the qurans intentions are to make sure women are taken care of which i cant argue with, arguing about the intentions of a 1500 year old book which is written in a language i cant speak is beyond me.
And in islamic society where polygamy is acceptable youre right that the man needs to prove he has enough money in these circumstances to look after the women.
But the more we speak about men having enough money to afford 4 wives the more shallow it seems to me.
And we are talking about traditions from a book which definitely doesnt view women as equal, im almost certain even muslims with the wildest imaginations couldnt argue against that. A womans testimony is worth less in court, it says god created women less than men and that men can admonish and beat women if they fear rebelion from them.
But this thread really isnt here to argue about all that anyway, i was more hoping to get to know what individual muslim experiences are regarding this, like i said most of the muslims i know or know of either dont have the will power to not have sex or they just dont take the rule seriously, but whats your experience? for example, did you lose your virginity to your wife? dont you ever feel temptation?
i was looking for a bit more than ridged scholarly answers

Response: The roles of men and women in islam are not the same. So naturally, their rights shoulld not be equal. That does not mean that their rights are not equal in justice. In islam men are to protect women, thus giving women the right to take the wealth of men and use it for no one but herself, while the man does not have that right. Instead, he must spend his wealth on the women and the family. In other words, here is a right that women have that men don't have that benefits women only. Similarly, their are rights that men have as protectors. But in the end, the difference rights do not bring about injustice, as both men and women benefit from these differences of rights.

Regarding testimony, such is not the case. Men and women have equals rights in testimony in court, and wife beating is exaggerated. The prescribed discipline is a light tap, the the force and weight of a bristle of a toothbrush. Thus since it leaves no pain or scars, there is nothing unjust about it except the complaint that it's not liked. It's a punishment, it's not supposed to be liked. Therefore it is just.

As for my personal sex life, sorry but I don't answer such personal questions.

Muslim guy i dont know if you have problems with your ability to read, im genuinely asking this sincerely, but i actually said i DONT want to argue the point about wether or not it says a husband can beat his wife in this thread because ive read many many many translations of the quran and seen that it blatently does say a huband can. And i DONT want scholars opinions on sex before marriage.
I said i wanted muslims own personal experiences on if they get tempted by sex before marriage, if not why not. And if they did lose their virginity to their wife and so on.
Your story so far as im aware is that youre going to not eat food to exhaust yourself everytime you feel a sexual urge and youre going to marry as soon as possible, which is fair enough if thats how you want to live your life.

(January 5, 2013 at 9:00 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Muslim guy i dont know if you have problems with your ability to read, im genuinely asking this sincerely, but i actually said i DONT want to argue the point about wether or not it says a husband can beat his wife in this thread because ive read many many many translations of the quran and seen that it blatently does say a huband can. And i DONT want scholars opinions on sex before marriage.
I said i wanted muslims own personal experiences on if they get tempted by sex before marriage, if not why not. And if they did lose their virginity to their wife and so on.
Your story so far as im aware is that youre going to not eat food to exhaust yourself everytime you feel a sexual urge and youre going to marry as soon as possible, which is fair enough if thats how you want to live your life.

Sorry i didnt mean for an argument. I apologize. i just felt i should clarify somethings you said.
Personally yeah you get tempted. But it's about dealing with that temptation. Masturbation is a huge temptation but it's about trying to stop it. So banning porn, stopping avenues that could lead to the temptation, remembering it doesnt benefit me only harms, remembering that it degradates women and watching porn will only make the porn industry more money. Then having the goal of going to heaven and not hell. But tbh most of time this goes out the window and you sin.

Islamically if you get tempted or any sexual thought enters the mind a man is told to lower his gaze and guard his private parts, surah 24:30 Sahih International
Tell the believing men to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts. That is purer for them. Indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what they do.

Meaning that say i see a sexually attractive women and get the temptation that i should lower my gaze and guard my chastity. And we are told that if we look up again that second look is from shaytaan e.g. bad a sin.
Same applies for women, Surah 24:31:
Sahih International
And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts

So this sort of helps day to day and in an islamic society the temptation would never arise. however in a non-islamic country this is hard to follow. Due to obvious temptation. But i duno rambling here but its just will power, remembering the bad effects of the sin, remember allah's reward in the hereafter and his punishment.

Personally i'm not gonna fast. And i'm going to marry who i love not a quick marriage.

I've often wondered if men have inserted into "sacred texts" the "no sex before marriage", and "the wife must be a virgin" because of performance pressure?

You think that confidence in transmission of property (and care thereof) to your own progeny wouldn't satisfy that peculiar little gem all by itself Kichi? Reproductive exclusivity.

(January 6, 2013 at 12:42 am)Rhythm Wrote: You think that confidence in transmission of property (and care thereof) to your own progeny wouldn't satisfy that peculiar little gem all by itself Kichi?

Sorry mate, not understanding how male sexual performance translates to transference of a females own property and existing children?

LOL, no no no. Put yourself in the shoes of some douchbag trying to hedge his life against what-have-you by claiming that god said this or that. Lets say that one of the things he worries about, is that the children he raises my not be his own, specifically, that the property he confers to "his" children might actually be conferred to someone else's children that he happened to be raising. It might seem, to said douchebag, that it would be prudent to claim that god doesn't want people to have any sort of sexual relationship outside of marriage. The wife being a virgin is easily understood as another assurance of the same. Conveniently he might get around this inconvenient proclamation -himself- by taking dozens of wives (but how often are women granted dozens of husbands?)

What I'm suggesting, is that the douchebag involved probably didn't actually care whether or not he could "perform"...what would that even mean to him (you've already given him entirely too much credit in caring about his performance with a female that was going to get counted in with his cattle when he settled his affairs)? It's not like he's in it to get -her- rocks off. But it;s easy to see how obsessed with reproductive exclusivity he was.