(January 30, 2013 at 7:44 am)Insanity x Wrote: Most historical figures aren't worshiped by a quite ridiculous number of people.

Some other historical figures were revered as gods, Egyptain Pharaohs and Roman Emperors for instance, it doesn't mean they were really were divine or supernatural. Jesus is slightly different in that he was a carpenter rather than a ruler of an empire and he has a following in the billions but there is a precedent for this in human history. Jesus could quite easily have existed as a plain boring man, perhaps he genuinely believed he had miraculous or supernatural powers.

(January 30, 2013 at 7:41 am)Zone Wrote:

(January 30, 2013 at 7:30 am)Zen Badger Wrote: I'm not asking about anyone else, I'm asking about jesus.

The standards you apply to any other historical figure ought to apply to Jesus as well, otherwise it'sd a double standard.

(January 30, 2013 at 7:30 am)Zen Badger Wrote: And these written accounts about him were.......?

The letters of St Paul these were were written before the gospel accounts about 20 years after Jesus death.

Except Paul never actually met jesus did he.

And in fact there are NO accounts of his life by first person witnesses.
A bit odd for some one who is supposed to have affected thousands in his ministry.

(January 30, 2013 at 7:50 am)Zone Wrote: Some other historical figures were revered as gods, Egyptain Pharaohs and Roman Emperors for instance, it doesn't mean they were really were divine or supernatural. Jesus is slightly different in that he was a carpenter rather than a ruler of an empire and he has a following in the billions but there is a precedent for this in human history.

Very few people still believe if any that the emperors and pharaohs were supernatural. I think we can pick and choose who we look at in more detail. Especially when they continue to impact the world in such a way. It at least makes them a person of interest to look into in more detail.

If somebody is telling people that we should all worship some bloke from 2000 years ago they should at least be able to demonstrate reliably that they existed in the first place.

Maybe there's a reason why any historical Jesus didn't get mentioned in contemporary records. Palestine was just one small area of the Roman Empire so a religious teacher wandering around wouldn't have made front page news in the Roman Times (figuratively speaking) unless he'd led a revolt which required sending in the legions.

Josephus recorded the siege of Masada and archaeological finds indicate that it really happened.

We know about Spartacus

Quote:Spartacus (Greek: Σπάρτακος, Spártakos; Latin: Spartacus[1]) (c. 109–71 BC) was a Thracian gladiator, who along with the Gauls Crixus, Oenomaus, the Roman Castus, and the Celt Gannicus, was one of the slave leaders in the Third Servile War, a major slave uprising against the Roman Republic.

We also know about Simon bar Kokhba

Quote:Simon bar Kokhba (Hebrew: שמעון בר כוכבא) (died CE 135) was the Jewish leader of what is known as the Bar Kokhba revolt against the Roman Empire in 132 CE, establishing an independent Jewish state which he ruled for three years as Nasi ("Prince"). His state was conquered by the Romans in 135 following a two-year war.

So, what might have happened -

A man who was as human as the rest of the population started a minor religious movement. His followers didn't understand a lot of what he was talking about so took some metaphors literally. The accounts got more and more fanciful over the generations until the real man got obscured by legends.

Legends can get attached to real people because it happened with Francis Drake who definitely existed. Here's one of them -

Quote:It is also said on Dartmoor that the ghost of Sir Francis Drake rides the moors on dark nights at the head of a pack of 'Wisht Hounds' seeking out the souls of the unwary or un-baptised. Some people have sworn they have seen him and the Devil riding out with the dogs of hell around Wistman's Wood. Why he should be associated with these stories is a mystery and a very, very old mystery at that?

Quote:Why do atheists even bother about debating Jesus

Oh I don't know, I had some questions, he said he'd be back soon. He had this trustworthy face ya know.

(January 30, 2013 at 9:45 am)The Magic Pudding Wrote:

Quote:Why do atheists even bother about debating Jesus

Oh I don't know, I had some questions, he said he'd be back soon. He had this trustworthy face ya know.

Jesus was like all the girls and women I hit on, "I'll call you sometime".

If Jesus had had kids he'd owe the biggest amount of child support. What a fucking deadbeat.

(January 30, 2013 at 12:33 am)missluckie26 Wrote: Dear Christian,

Are you ever going to address statements made by nonbelievers that refute your beliefs, or are you just going to keep ignoring their assertions completely? I'd like to know, seriously. Save me some time and finger power.

~Missy~

Hey relax, the god botherers send the message on, it just takes a while to concoct a reply.

The primary reason is mostly to educate people on the truth. People are actually of the opinion that a 2000 year old zombie comes to their bed sides and wakes them up int he morning and gives them a reason for living. It's just sad, especially when they impose that belief on someone else.

(January 30, 2013 at 11:50 am)Question Mark Wrote: The primary reason is mostly to educate people on the truth. People are actually of the opinion that a 2000 year old zombie comes to their bed sides and wakes them up int he morning and gives them a reason for living. It's just sad, especially when they impose that belief on someone else.

Imagine how far ahead humanity would have been if at the time of Galileo the church had said "Ok, you're right, the earth does rotate around the sun".

What did they do instead, "We are putting you in prison for your own safety because the masses hate the truth".

I warn that criticism of labels really should be gullibility based and not label based. Humans have always been superstitious.

(January 29, 2013 at 11:44 pm)Christian Wrote: Its always healthy to talk about our Lord, be it for or against Him. I don't see any reason why Atheists shouldn't talk about Jesus Christ?

And equally productive to talk about the Tooth Fairy.