Quote:"You would find that the most hostile people towards believers, are the Jews & the heathens, you would also find that the most cordial people towards believers, are the ones who said "we are Nasara" -nasara means christians ; the companions of christ- that because amongst them are pastors & monks, and they're not arrogant" sura 5, verse 82

This isnt being kind to christians, this is just a verse saying christians will be kind to muslims, taking into account the crusades id say the verse isnt that accurate

Just like the rest of the verses...

(February 6, 2013 at 7:16 pm)Drich Wrote: Aside from I don't generally care what people of your faith believe, this is the other reason I do not like speaking with you guys on religious matters. You don't know how to follow a conversation and direct your responses to the topics being discussed. This is either an intentional (Red Herring) or deflection, or it could be a general ignorance of polite conversation, or just more of that crazy Islamic Zeolusness, to go on about stuff I just do not give two squirts about.

If you can focous your efforts and stay on target, reset and try your response again. If not then the conversation from this point is yours.

Dear Drich, my lovely friend with a funny name !
Debate is not about my believe or yours, it's about the reader

As far as I know, these debates result in "nothing", but what I care about is the reader.

You should also care about the reader & start answering my post : )
Matter in fact ; I did everything you asked, the verses & everything else is there.
Just reply because avoiding it makes you look weird ! I have answered what you asked for ; in details just like you asked ??? next time don't ask for details if you can't read them.

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(February 6, 2013 at 9:48 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

Quote:"You would find that the most hostile people towards believers, are the Jews & the heathens, you would also find that the most cordial people towards believers, are the ones who said "we are Nasara" -nasara means christians ; the companions of christ- that because amongst them are pastors & monks, and they're not arrogant" sura 5, verse 82

This isnt being kind to christians, this is just a verse saying christians will be kind to muslims, taking into account the crusades id say the verse isnt that accurate

There is something called "the condition", if it's broken then the verse doesn't fit the situation.

The condition "or constraint" here is this :
that because amongst them are pastors & monks, and they're not arrogant

This fuck wasn't humble, he was the most vicious animal in europe :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Urban_II

and of course he was racist.

Quote:I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ's heralds to publish this everywhere and to pers­e all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends. I say this to those who are present, it is meant also for those who are absent. Moreover, Christ commands it.

and of course he was a bandit, a thieve & an invading fuck :

Quote:this land which you inhabit, shut in on all sides by the seas and surrounded by the mountain peaks, is too narrow for your large population; nor does it abound in wealth; and it furnishes scarcely food enough for its cultivators. Hence it is that you murder one another, that you wage war, and that frequently you perish by mutual wounds. Let therefore hatred depart from among you, let your quarrels end, let wars cease, and let all dissensions and controversies slumber. Enter upon the road to the Holy Sepulchre; wrest that land from the wicked race, and subject it to yourselves ... God has conferred upon you above all nations great glory in arms. Accordingly undertake this journey for the remission of your sins, with the assurance of the imperishable glory of the Kingdom of Heaven.

And also a white supremest -_-", because obviously he thinks that god favored the white european christians over all humanity, especially arab monkeys like me.

Anyway, this guy (who waged the crusades) was a bandit, thieve, racist, warlord & above all : not humble at all !!!

Which contradicts the condition of the verse. The verse if accurate, if the description fall fairly on the person : )

Quote:You would find that the most hostile people towards believers, are the Jews & the heathens, you would also find that the most cordial people towards believers, are the ones who said "we are Nasara" -nasara means christians ; the companions of christ- that because amongst them are pastors & monks, and they're not arrogant" sura 5, verse 82

Theres no condition in the verse, its saying christians will be the most cordial to muslims, because amongst them are pastors and monks, they are humble.

Thats like me saying to my friend "this new guy in work is really cordial to get along with, its because he is quite humble and he is also kind" then when my friend gets his legs blown off by a shotgun fired by this man. Then in my friends dying words he says "You said he was cordial" Then me saying "yeh but he wasnt kind, so that breaks the condition of him being cordial"

(February 6, 2013 at 1:26 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: Israel is a whore to the west, shouldn't exist, and the Christians whore back to it because it's necessary to their Biblical prophecy.

The only thing Muslims have on Jews and Christians is they've had a few hundred less years for the majority of their population to settle the fuck down and move to secular countries. Many of them are still animals. So are many Christians and Jews.

The only reason the Jews get a pass is the Holocaust.

I think you're right. For a long time I thought that Muslims live their dark ages now. It's the 15th century in Islamic calendar, that's equivalent to year 1400 AD..

That's why I also think, that countries like israel would eventually suffer the same fate as rome : barbarian attacks, similar to the ones which made rome fall.

Keeping the arabs isolated by that fucked up foreign policy (the same as rome's) would make them ignorant, savage, angry & more vicious, put religion into the mixture : the next fall of rome.

I really started to see some medieval topics & thoughts re-spreading in arab societies.. Heart breaking & really depressing.

Monks and pastors are all humble, WRONG
Christians will be most cordial to the muslims, WRONG

Just because the first one is wrong it doesnt make the second one right thats the craziest logic ive ever seen

Amusing shit. To me this is the same as using a stack of old comic books for researching the question: "Why don't Green Lantern fans respect Green Hornet fans?"

(February 6, 2013 at 10:54 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

Quote:You would find that the most hostile people towards believers, are the Jews & the heathens, you would also find that the most cordial people towards believers, are the ones who said "we are Nasara" -nasara means christians ; the companions of christ- that because amongst them are pastors & monks, and they're not arrogant" sura 5, verse 82

Theres no condition in the verse, its saying christians will be the most cordial to muslims, because amongst them are pastors and monks, they are humble.

Thats like me saying to my friend "this new guy in work is really cordial to get along with, its because he is quite humble and he is also kind" then when my friend gets his legs blown off by a shotgun fired by this man. Then in my friends dying words he says "You said he was cordial" Then me saying "yeh but he wasnt kind, so that breaks the condition of him being cordial"

That proves your poor judgement
#Note : the next line contains a stupid joke ; ignore it if you wanna cut to the point
First of all ; most "cordial & very nice people" might be serial killers ! so you should know that before telling your friend that the new guy is nice, never heard about fish ? he was the nicest old man on earth ; turns out to be a cannibal & a pedophile, WTF ? he ate a little girl's vagina (a true character, and I have the worst joking sense).

Secondly, the point.
I wasn't joking when I said that you have a poor judgement. You're not a god, so your judgement would always be inaccurate, to a limit .

Then, you specified a person (with his name), which is a second mistake.

The Quran deals with rules. Through out the book, some people are specified with names ; most of them are dead already.
The rule is where the condition stands.

For the example, the verse which specifies that Ibraham was praying. If wasn't praying in reality (and you've saw him), then yes ; the verse is false.

But when another verse says, that unbelievers are in hell because "they didn't believe in god", can we use this verse to judge anybody ?

Actually this is a verse of a general rule. Non-believers go to hell, but since we don't know the future, I can't say that you -paulpablo- are in hell. All I can say is : god is so divine, he doesn't accept you turning your back & not believe in him, and he punishes those who don't believe in him with hell.

but are you in hell ? as paulpablo ? I don't know, only god knows.

That's the difference. Here it was a general rule, christians are somehow better because they have monks & pastors who aren't arrogant.

So still, can I judge all christians ? nope, I don't if the monks & pastors ,the bumble ones, are still there or not.

(February 6, 2013 at 11:20 pm)AtlasS Wrote: But when another verse says, that unbelievers are in hell because "they didn't believe in god", can we use this verse to judge anybody ?

Actually this is a verse of a general rule. Non-believers go to hell, but since we don't know the future, I can't say that you -paulpablo- are in hell. All I can say is : god is so divine, he doesn't accept you turning your back & not believe in him, and he punishes those who don't believe in him with hell.

but are you in hell ? as paulpablo ? I don't know, only god knows.

That's the difference. Here it was a general rule, christians are somehow better because they have monks & pastors who aren't arrogant.

So still, can I judge all christians ? nope, I don't if the monks & pastors ,the bumble ones, are still there or not.

Are you aware that "hell" is from the New Testament? The same book you feel is corrupted? Did you also know that "hell" is mainly based on the Greek myth of Tatarus?.
.

(February 6, 2013 at 10:55 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Monks and pastors are all humble, WRONG
Christians will be most cordial to the muslims, WRONG

Just because the first one is wrong it doesnt make the second one right thats the craziest logic ive ever seen

It's not that crazy if you used boolean stuff

-Boolean symbols : &
means : M & X
m= true, X= true then condition is true
m= true, X= false then condition is false

- OR
means : M OR X

m= true, X= true then condition is true
m= true, X= false then condition is true

According to this logic let's validate the verse.

(monks OR pastors ) AND humble = christian's becoming good to us.

Validate the brackets then what's outside. It's really simple . not that crazy.

more similar to

(paulpablo OR Atheists) AND not angry = Cool debate.

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(February 6, 2013 at 11:29 pm)catfish Wrote:

(February 6, 2013 at 11:20 pm)AtlasS Wrote: But when another verse says, that unbelievers are in hell because "they didn't believe in god", can we use this verse to judge anybody ?

Actually this is a verse of a general rule. Non-believers go to hell, but since we don't know the future, I can't say that you -paulpablo- are in hell. All I can say is : god is so divine, he doesn't accept you turning your back & not believe in him, and he punishes those who don't believe in him with hell.

but are you in hell ? as paulpablo ? I don't know, only god knows.

That's the difference. Here it was a general rule, christians are somehow better because they have monks & pastors who aren't arrogant.

So still, can I judge all christians ? nope, I don't if the monks & pastors ,the bumble ones, are still there or not.

Are you aware that "hell" is from the New Testament? The same book you feel is corrupted? Did you also know that "hell" is mainly based on the Greek myth of Tatarus?.
.

Or maybe, the greek mythology was built on Islam. Hence we believe that prophets & messengers have been there since the dawn of humanity (Adam was the first prophet).

Didn't you hear about the Greek's talk about the great flood too ? : )

Personally I believe that all mythologies were once Islam, turned slowly into heathenry, we already seen that with christianity
and now Muslims are following the same path.

We even believe that some heathen god were humans beings not mere imagination, more like saints, and with time people started to worship them & glorify them, but in most heathen religions you must find the central god or the strongest one (the father in christianity), Zeus in greek mythology, Odin ...etc.