(February 7, 2013 at 12:54 am)catfish Wrote: Sura 29:46 "Dispute ye not with the people of the book, except in the best way, unless it be with those of them who do wrong but say, ‘We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; our God is your God is One; and it is to Him we submit (in Islam)."

Sura 4:150-151 "Those who deny Allah and his messengers, and wish to separate between Allah and his messengers, Saying: ‘We believe in some but reject others’: and wish to take a course midway, (151) They are in truth unbelievers;..."

Are these quotes accurate or not?
.

The last verse in sura 4 is 120
http://i45.tinypic.com/2vjzitf.jpg

But I recognize them, they exist but in another section.

But notice : these were people of the book, either rejecting or approving islam, not muslims judging what happened to old true gospels. We believe they were true and forged.

In the verses, the situation is different, because people like the jews believe only in the Talmud and deny the bible, while christians believe in the talmud & deny the Quran ...etc.

so they should all believe, that their gospels were true once, but out of date now, and the Quran is the substitution of that. But they should also believe in all prophets, all books, and that Islam is the same as their old books.

BTW, just for the record, during the time of mohammed,he received offers to mix the Quran with other stuff & forge it, that was the case in another verse, including the same sentence (We believe in some but reject others).

(February 7, 2013 at 1:10 am)AtlasS Wrote: BTW, just for the record, during the time of mohammed,he received offers to mix the Quran with other stuff & forge it, that was the case in another verse, including the same sentence (We believe in some but reject others).

Could you explain the red text?
.

(February 7, 2013 at 12:58 am)cato123 Wrote:

(February 7, 2013 at 12:40 am)AtlasS Wrote: A lof of people wondered how the promise of god would become true, and how the Quran would reach every person..

Lame excuse. Joseph Smith reaches more people everyday without the use of the internet. Try again.

You are true, it is lame. I really have no answer.
But mohammed was the prophet of all humanity, not just arabs.

We are to carry the message after him, and may god help us to carry that burden without making mistakes.

---

(February 7, 2013 at 1:12 am)catfish Wrote:

(February 7, 2013 at 1:10 am)AtlasS Wrote: BTW, just for the record, during the time of mohammed,he received offers to mix the Quran with other stuff & forge it, that was the case in another verse, including the same sentence (We believe in some but reject others).

Could you explain the red text?
.

The literal sentence in arabic :
يؤمنون ببعض الكتاب و يكفرون ببعض
Translation :
They believe in some the book "singular" and deny some->returns on the Quran ; because the "ones who deny the prophet" were the early heathens of mecca, they didn't believe in any other book, and their debate was about the Quran only.

Some other verses described that even jews & christians did that (believed in some of their holly books & ignored the other parts), which led to forging the faith for good.

I wanted to know how the red text applied to your sentence. Do you reject portions of the Qu'ran? If so, why? Do you reject portions of the other book? If so why?
Wouldn't rejecting any portion of either book be going against a "perfect" Qu'ran?
.

I thought I'd look around to see how many Muslims think that Islam is a religion of peace and found two very interesting articles.

Qasim Rashid, a human rights activist, is an an Ahmadi Muslim. His view is that Islam is a religion of peace. The second article I'm posting a link to is about his campaign to stop the persecution of Ahmadi Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Shias and atheists living in Pakistan.

Richard Dawkins Follows Prophet Muhammad's Teaching on Freedom

The Wrong Kind Of Muslim

I also discovered that the Ahmadi Muslims started the Humanity First organisation.

(February 7, 2013 at 1:28 am)catfish Wrote: I wanted to know how the red text applied to your sentence. Do you reject portions of the Qu'ran? If so, why? Do you reject portions of the other book? If so why?
Wouldn't rejecting any portion of either book be going against a "perfect" Qu'ran?
.

I believe in the Quran from A-Z. I believe in all of it because god promised to keep it un-forged.

It doesn't apply on me, the believing in some of the Quran & ignoring the rest was the act of the arab heathens, I just copied the verse as an example that jews, christians & even heathens sometimes did the same act in not trusting the gospels as whole, which allowed forgery to happen.

You need to tell me what you think "book/books" mean.

(February 7, 2013 at 9:35 am)AtlasS Wrote:

(February 7, 2013 at 1:28 am)catfish Wrote: I wanted to know how the red text applied to your sentence. Do you reject portions of the Qu'ran? If so, why? Do you reject portions of the other book? If so why?
Wouldn't rejecting any portion of either book be going against a "perfect" Qu'ran?
.

I believe in the Quran from A-Z. I believe in all of it because god promised to keep it un-forged.

It doesn't apply on me, the believing in some of the Quran & ignoring the rest was the act of the arab heathens, I just copied the verse as an example that jews, christians & even heathens sometimes did the same act in not trusting the gospels as whole, which allowed forgery to happen.

You need to tell me what you think "book/books" mean.

"Book/books" mean the Jewish and Christian texts.

You say it doesn't apply to you, but you don't believe in all of the Torah and Bible. I say that it does apply to you if you don't believe them all 100%.
.

(February 7, 2013 at 6:10 am)Confused Ape Wrote: I thought I'd look around to see how many Muslims think that Islam is a religion of peace and found two very interesting articles.

Qasim Rashid, a human rights activist, is an an Ahmadi Muslim. His view is that Islam is a religion of peace. The second article I'm posting a link to is about his campaign to stop the persecution of Ahmadi Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Shias and atheists living in Pakistan.

Richard Dawkins Follows Prophet Muhammad's Teaching on Freedom

The Wrong Kind Of Muslim

I also discovered that the Ahmadi Muslims started the Humanity First organisation.

Do you believe that I never heard about them ? The area of pakistan/india is really full of surprises !

I like their calls to peace, but I don't agree with them in some believes they have.

Quote:But speaking of hell, in comparing Islam's afterlife concept to Dawkins' concept of no after life -- it is only Dawkins' teaching that would frighten children -- or adults. Dawkins would have children believe that after we lose consciousness and die, our bodies simply rot, are eaten by worms and insects, emit a putrid odor, and our self-awareness is destroyed into an eternal agnostic void of nothingness. All our joys, pleasures, friends, loved ones, families--everything we ever held near and dear is all left to eventual death and destruction, never to be seen or heard from again.

On this precisely ; I do agree. Despite being off topic, but I always thought that atheists are more prone to depression & mental disorders,

Opening a website like http://www.bestgore.com will give a person some mental abuse if he/she doesn't believe in heaven & hell.

The most scariest thing I ever imagined is the void. That silent void that extends to infinity, that thought kills me, it's too scary to be true.

Believing in heaven & hell is healthier in my opinion. During my childhood, when the description of hell scares me, I jump to the description of heaven.

Dawkins forgot that heaven also exists which makes his comparison biased, if hell is giving children mental abuse, then what about heaven ?

The Quran stated that but I forgot where the verse is. It literally means :
This book,makes the skin of its reader shrinks in fear, but after that it becomes smooth to call for god's name.

The curve is moving down to the negative side until the person is about to throw up, then it goes up again really fast to "heaven's side", which brings a feeling of salvation .

What do you think, ape ? does hell brings mental abuse to children ?

(February 7, 2013 at 9:57 am)AtlasS Wrote: Do you believe that I never heard about them ? The area of pakistan/india is really full of surprises !

I like their calls to peace, but I don't agree with them in some believes they have.

I does go to show that Islam is a religion of peace for Muslims who choose to see it that way the same as Christianity is a religion of love and forgiveness for Christians who choose to see it that way.

(February 7, 2013 at 9:57 am)AtlasS Wrote: What do you think, ape ? does hell brings mental abuse to children ?

If it's used as a threat to terrify children into submission it's a form of mental abuse.

(February 7, 2013 at 9:46 am)catfish Wrote:

(February 7, 2013 at 9:35 am)AtlasS Wrote: I believe in the Quran from A-Z. I believe in all of it because god promised to keep it un-forged.

It doesn't apply on me, the believing in some of the Quran & ignoring the rest was the act of the arab heathens, I just copied the verse as an example that jews, christians & even heathens sometimes did the same act in not trusting the gospels as whole, which allowed forgery to happen.

You need to tell me what you think "book/books" mean.

"Book/books" mean the Jewish and Christian texts.

You say it doesn't apply to you, but you don't believe in all of the Torah and Bible. I say that it does apply to you if you don't believe them all 100%.
.

The books are revealed by god to a certain prophet.
that prophet tells & dies.
the people after him take the books
they do whatever they want to it


In order to believe in the older books ; you need to believe in the blue part.
The god revealed, the prophet received, the prophet delivered.

and there I finally see your point

The Quran is considered "nasekh", the word "naskh" means "deletes what's before it", which means that if you wanted to belong to muslims, you take the last book ; because the last one "elements" what's before it, it contains the new pillars which match our world today.

Hence ; god already told us that they are forged & useless today, about the jews and what they did to their book (and why hell isn't mentioned in their books anymore) :

"Woe to those who write the book with their own hands then say : that was revealed from god, just to fetch a small price -money-, woe to what they wrote with their hands, and woe to what they earn (79)

And they said ; hellfire will touch us only for few days, did you take an oath on god ? god would never break his oath -that nobody is above hell ; even prophets- or do you say on god what you don't know ? (80)"
Sura 2, verses 79 + 80

So, we already know that jews did change their religion, so why do we believe in their books after they were forged ?

Do you get what I'm saying ?

We believe that the original texts were revealed to the prophets, but where are they ?

Yeah off topic but about hell : the jews removed the verses of hell from their book, because they thought that they would never visit it, or it will touch them for mere days, the days are even countable.