(February 19, 2013 at 11:46 am)BeeDeePee Wrote: What were the main reasons that led you to the conclusion that you shouldn't believe in God and belong to any religion?

The complete and total lack of reasons that you should believe in god.

(February 19, 2013 at 2:08 pm)BeeDeePee Wrote: They are not metaphysical today, when scientists can use a lot of methods to test whether they are true or not. But they were metaphysical in the past when it was not possible.

Events do not suddenly stop being metaphysical and start being physical. The events you describe as 'metaphysical' were really just physical phenomena all along, and we simply didn't understand them. This is why I dismiss any appeal to metaphysics in debates of this nature.

Untestable hypotheses are good for nothing more than discussion fodder. It's silly, not to mention pointless, to resort to one and insist that it is worth more than that. It is like you're playing baseball, and a team which is entirely incapable of getting even a single hit insists on playing one extra inning after another, intending to stop only once an inning ends with them in the lead. You just get a game which will last for an infinite amount of time.

(February 19, 2013 at 5:44 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Well, to put it simple, apparently, god is shy. Poor fella, lacks self confidence.

Not that shy. I hear he knocked up a 12-year old Jewish girl a while back. But then, I also hear it didn't turn out too well.

(February 20, 2013 at 3:41 am)EGross Wrote:

(February 19, 2013 at 5:44 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Well, to put it simple, apparently, god is shy. Poor fella, lacks self confidence.

Not that shy. I hear he knocked up a 12-year old Jewish girl a while back. But then, I also hear it didn't turn out too well.

Are you kidding? That shit turned God from an angry, bitter small-town loser into a spiritual rapist beloved by billions. Market share explosion.

(February 19, 2013 at 3:40 pm)BeeDeePee Wrote: I have period(s) when I declared myself as atheist, and lived without religion.

So when you were an atheist, you:

• Believed that ALL religions were contrived by men, and ALL were works of fiction
• Could not accept the claims made by religious people or their “holy” books
• Believed that religious people, of all “faiths” were misguided at best, and delusional at worst
• Believed that physical reality was all that existed, and stories of “creation”, deities, spirits, angels, demons, souls, etc., were merely fantasies

And then somehow you became convinced that Christianity was no longer to be grouped as a falsehood with all other religions, because it is actually the one religion that is true. That the god you now “believe in” is actually real, and that he really did create the universe, and that he really does rule over it. That angels, demons, spirits, etc., are actually real. And that after your death you will be resurrected and you will live forever in the presence of this god.

You either have no clue as to what an atheist is, or you are flat-out fucking lying. Go sing "Amazing Grace" somewhere else.

If all you did is take a break from your religion, you were probably never an atheist in the first place.

(February 19, 2013 at 3:45 pm)BeeDeePee Wrote: See you guys, I'll answer on other questions tomorrow.

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(February 19, 2013 at 3:43 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Yeah you believe because you want to...got it.

Of course. I've chosen to believe in Orthodoxy because I found myself in this way of living.

Out of interest, given the 2 areas of Christian Orthodoxy, which one did you join, Eastern or Oriental? Or is "Orthodoxy" just a generic term and not to be used to isolate yourself to a specific practice? I still maintain an Orthodox lifestyle (not Christian), but have an atheist mindset, so I am interested in what you mean by lifestyle that can only be experienced through orthodoxy that requires a belief in a God.

(February 20, 2013 at 8:22 am)EGross Wrote: Out of interest, given the 2 areas of Christian Orthodoxy, which one did you join, Eastern or Oriental? Or is "Orthodoxy" just a generic term and not to be used to isolate yourself to a specific practice? I still maintain an Orthodox lifestyle (not Christian), but have an atheist mindset, so I am interested in what you mean by lifestyle that can only be experienced through orthodoxy that requires a belief in a God.

I belong to Eastern Orthodoxy (although I thinkt there's no the real difference between these two branches of Otrhodoxy. The schism that happened in the past is a consequence of misunderstanding).

I mean on lifestyle where you're releasing yourself from egocenrtism. I think that faith is the esential element if you want to achieve it.

Of course, maybe there are some people who can make the same without faith. This is just my experience and what is the best for me. I don't reject experiences of others, even if they don't agree with with what I believe in. I think that many people who are not Orthodox (including atheists) will go to heaven. Some people will be saved out of (canonical) Church.

(February 20, 2013 at 9:32 am)BeeDeePee Wrote: I think that many people who are not Orthodox (including atheists) will go to heaven.

That's not how I got to know god, but I appreciate your view nonetheless.

(February 20, 2013 at 8:01 am)Ryantology Wrote: If all you did is take a break from your religion, you were probably never an atheist in the first place.

Well, I remember I thought how silly is to believe in God without evidence. I' ve changed the complete world view. Even now I'm not sure 100% that my faith is true. I still question an have no problem with that. I don't know everything, I don't have answers on all questions, but it doesn't mean I can't believe in God, because I think that doubt is completely natural and there's nothing wrong with that. Atheist and theism are both natural.

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(February 20, 2013 at 7:48 am)Strongbad Wrote: So when you were an atheist, you:

• Believed that ALL religions were contrived by men, and ALL were works of fiction
• Could not accept the claims made by religious people or their “holy” books
• Believed that religious people, of all “faiths” were misguided at best, and delusional at worst
• Believed that physical reality was all that existed, and stories of “creation”, deities, spirits, angels, demons, souls, etc., were merely fantasies

You either have no clue as to what an atheist is, or you are flat-out fucking lying. Go sing "Amazing Grace" somewhere else.

I believed in everything that you've mentioned. Call me a liar or whatever you want, I said how it happened... I'm not here to convince others in anything, and I won't spend my time trying to convince you that I'm not lying.

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(February 19, 2013 at 9:43 pm)Ryantology Wrote: Events do not suddenly stop being metaphysical and start being physical. The events you describe as 'metaphysical' were really just physical phenomena all along, and we simply didn't understand them. This is why I dismiss any appeal to metaphysics in debates of this nature.

I made a mistake by using the word "mepathysical". I was speaking about untestable claims.

Quote:Untestable hypotheses are good for nothing more than discussion fodder. It's silly, not to mention pointless, to resort to one and insist that it is worth more than that.

Well, we all resort to untestable hypotheses and claims and don't think about them as meaningless.

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(February 19, 2013 at 5:28 pm)pocaracas Wrote: The warm fuzzy feeling.
I can get that with a blanket!!

Quote:I'm talking about transformation, not just feelings.

Quote:Do we need to believe in god?

You don't. I've said that everyone has thery own way of salvation.

Aye, you believe what was implanted in your brain. And you were implanted with the notion that you belong in this social group called "orthodox christians", and you hang in there by following its rites.

I questioned my faith billion of times, and wanted to find better reasons for believing instead to believe just because I was born where the Orthodox Church is the biggest religious group.