(March 5, 2013 at 7:17 pm)justin Wrote: What is the whole deal with worshiping? Like why is that even wanted or needed by a god? It seems kinda pointless to me. Also why should we worship? Cause he tells you so and he is stronger? Does that give him right to insist he be worshiped?

Replace the impersonal term "worship" with the word love.

"What is the whole deal with Love? whu does God want to be loved?"

You were created in his Image to answer this question yourself. Why do you want to be loved?

(March 5, 2013 at 8:12 pm)festive1 Wrote: If god knows everyone's hearts and minds, why the worship? Isn't it better to know than to make people grovel? Your god has some serious power issues.

First, I don't recall grovelling lately.

Second, my wife knows I love her, and doesn't need me to tell her so and do nice things for her, but I do it because I love her. Don't you do the same for others, and receive the same from them? Are they making you grovel?

I do nice things for those I love to make them happy, which, in turn, makes me happy. I see no need to do anything to make some unlikely to exist entity happy. If god wants appreciation for his efforts, I'm sure most atheists would agree, we have all marveled over this world in which we live. Since he knows all of our minds, surely this is enough of an ego stroke. Why give up sleeping in on Sunday morning?

(March 5, 2013 at 7:17 pm)justin Wrote: What is the whole deal with worshiping? Like why is that even wanted or needed by a god? It seems kinda pointless to me. Also why should we worship? Cause he tells you so and he is stronger? Does that give him right to insist he be worshiped?

From a Muslim point of view, God Himself doesn't actually need any of our prayers and glorifications because He is the most self-sufficient. Rather, we are supposed to praise Him and worship Him simply because of who He is - i.e. because of his greatness, because He is the Creator, because He is the Most Praiseworthy (Al-Hameed) which is one of the 99 attributes of Allah, and because we are the ones who need His guidance and forgiveness, not the other way around.

"O mankind, it is you who stand in need of Allah, but Allah is the One Free of all wants, worthy of all praise." (Surah 35:15)

... which means that God doesn't need nor want any worship, but He is indeed worthy of worship.

Furthermore, we believe that God is so worthy of worship that everything in the heavens and the earth have been engaged in the act of glorying Him and worshipping Him since the moment they came into existence; the sun, moon, trees, rivers, oceans, birds, insects, animals, the mountains, the stars, galaxies, your cells, DNA, and everything else are already worshipping their creator in one way or another, but we just do not understand how they are doing this as the Quran says:

"The seven heavens and the earth and all that is therein, glorify Him and there is not a thing but glorifies His Praise. But you understand not their glorification. Truly, He is Ever Forbearing, Oft-Forgiving." (Surah 17:44)

"Do you not see that everything in the heavens and earth prostrates to Allah: the sun, the moon, the stars, the mountains, the trees, and the animals? So do many human beings, though for many others punishment is justified. And he whom Allah humiliates - for him there is no bestower of honor. Indeed, Allah does whatever He wills." (Surah 22:18)

people can worship whomever they want aslong as they dont hurt themselves or others

and worship occours not just in religion.

(March 5, 2013 at 7:47 pm)John V Wrote:

(March 5, 2013 at 7:17 pm)justin Wrote: What is the whole deal with worshiping? Like why is that even wanted or needed by a god? It seems kinda pointless to me.

Positive recognition is enjoyable. This question/argument is particularly amusing on this site, considering the kudos, reputation, and annual awards.

Quote:Also why should we worship? Cause he tells you so and he is stronger? Does that give him right to insist he be worshiped?

I find life to be a net positive, and so I'm thankful and want to express it.

Okay but these "kudos" are given willingly. God demands when you believe in to worship him. And why is it so important? Seems like god is PMSing if you ask me. But no seriously why is he so hellbent on people groping over him all the time?

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(March 5, 2013 at 10:06 pm)Rayaan Wrote:

(March 5, 2013 at 7:17 pm)justin Wrote: What is the whole deal with worshiping? Like why is that even wanted or needed by a god? It seems kinda pointless to me. Also why should we worship? Cause he tells you so and he is stronger? Does that give him right to insist he be worshiped?

From a Muslim point of view, God Himself doesn't actually need any of our prayers and glorifications because He is the most self-sufficient. Rather, we are supposed to praise Him and worship Him simply because of who He is - i.e. because of his greatness, because He is the Creator, because He is the Most Praiseworthy (Al-Hameed) which is one of the 99 attributes of Allah, and because we are the ones who need His guidance and forgiveness, not the other way around.

"O mankind, it is you who stand in need of Allah, but Allah is the One Free of all wants, worthy of all praise." (Surah 35:15)

... which means that God doesn't need nor want any worship, but He is indeed worthy of worship.

Furthermore, we believe that God is so worthy of worship that everything in the heavens and the earth have been engaged in the act of glorying Him and worshipping Him since the moment they came into existence; the sun, moon, trees, rivers, oceans, birds, insects, animals, the mountains, the stars, galaxies, your cells, DNA, and everything else are already worshipping their creator in one way or another, but we just do not understand how they are doing this as the Quran says:

"The seven heavens and the earth and all that is therein, glorify Him and there is not a thing but glorifies His Praise. But you understand not their glorification. Truly, He is Ever Forbearing, Oft-Forgiving." (Surah 17:44)

"Do you not see that everything in the heavens and earth prostrates to Allah: the sun, the moon, the stars, the mountains, the trees, and the animals? So do many human beings, though for many others punishment is justified. And he whom Allah humiliates - for him there is no bestower of honor. Indeed, Allah does whatever He wills." (Surah 22:18)

Yeah so basically i was brought into existence by no will of my own. Then i am told i have to worship this god because he created me? Like wtf? He deserves to because he stronger? Imagine if we lived our lives like that? Demanding worship from the weaker. That doesn't seem right to be honest. The mentally handicap, the poor, the small, the children, etc would all be told they must worship because we are stronger. And if you don't understand how they are worshiping him then how do you know they are? They show no evidence of even having any consciousness to "worship" him. That just makes no sense.

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(March 5, 2013 at 8:20 pm)Drich Wrote:

(March 5, 2013 at 7:17 pm)justin Wrote: What is the whole deal with worshiping? Like why is that even wanted or needed by a god? It seems kinda pointless to me. Also why should we worship? Cause he tells you so and he is stronger? Does that give him right to insist he be worshiped?

Replace the impersonal term "worship" with the word love.

"What is the whole deal with Love? whu does God want to be loved?"

You were created in his Image to answer this question yourself. Why do you want to be loved?

Hmm good one drich. I like this alot better. Got me thinking now haha but no seriously love and worship aren't the same thing.

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(March 5, 2013 at 8:20 pm)Drich Wrote:

(March 5, 2013 at 7:17 pm)justin Wrote: What is the whole deal with worshiping? Like why is that even wanted or needed by a god? It seems kinda pointless to me. Also why should we worship? Cause he tells you so and he is stronger? Does that give him right to insist he be worshiped?

Replace the impersonal term "worship" with the word love.

"What is the whole deal with Love? whu does God want to be loved?"

You were created in his Image to answer this question yourself. Why do you want to be loved?

Hmm good one drich. I like this alot better. Got me thinking now haha but no seriously love and worship aren't the same thing.

It's unhealthy for a person to not appreciate his father and mother, if they were good to him. The father and mother perhaps care more about the child loving them and appreciating, because, it would be unhealthy of the child not to and dishonorable not to.

I think the religions that advocate God believe it's unhealthy of us not to appreciate God for who he is.

(March 5, 2013 at 9:28 pm)festive1 Wrote: I do nice things for those I love to make them happy, which, in turn, makes me happy.

Precisely.

You don't love God, so you don't make yourself happier.

(March 5, 2013 at 9:28 pm)festive1 Wrote: I do nice things for those I love to make them happy, which, in turn, makes me happy. I see no need to do anything to make some unlikely to exist entity happy. If god wants appreciation for his efforts, I'm sure most atheists would agree, we have all marveled over this world in which we live. Since he knows all of our minds, surely this is enough of an ego stroke. Why give up sleeping in on Sunday morning?

To make him happy, which in turn makes me happy, just as you do for those you love.

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(March 5, 2013 at 11:12 pm)justin Wrote: Okay but these "kudos" are given willingly.

My worship is given willingly. I'm free to stay home Sunday morning if I like.

Quote:God demands when you believe in to worship him. And why is it so important? Seems like god is PMSing if you ask me. But no seriously why is he so hellbent on people groping over him all the time?

Going to church on Sunday /= groping over him all the time.