(March 10, 2013 at 8:23 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I'd've said that atheists tend not to worship religious characters, but then I'm only familiar with bog-standard, ordinarily defined atheists.

Is this post pertinent to the discussion I've bee having? If it is, then you should know that I didn't make the claim that Atheists worship anything. Believing that something exists does not equate to worshipping it. If you weren't talking to me, then just ignore me

I don't know if you ever said explicitly that Atheists are Satanists. I don't think you did, nor did I ever say that you said it. I was merely trying to put something out there. As far as the IQ of Atheists on this forum, I really don't know. If there were to be a scientific study comparing the average IQ of this forum's regular Atheist users to the average person, I'd hypothesize that the forum user's IQ would be higher. Just a hunch.

(March 10, 2013 at 8:23 pm)Darkstar Wrote:

(March 10, 2013 at 8:09 pm)mo66 Wrote: What do you mean? Do you believe Jesus existed as a human being? Or Moses? If you accept that they existed, then you should see no problem with Atheists accepting Satan, it's not really difficult to comprehend.

Do you believe Satan existed as a human being? Even if he did exist, he wouldn't have been human.

(March 10, 2013 at 8:09 pm)mo66 Wrote: Satan's just a character, and perhaps some Atheists feel they have some evidence that he exists. My friend certainly does.

An atheist can believe in the supernatural (though they rarely do) but Satan, as a character, was created by god. If you believe Satan exists, then you believe he was created by god, whom you also believe in (but do not necessarily worship). If you believe in Satan, but not that god created him, then he isn't the same Satan.

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(March 10, 2013 at 8:20 pm)mo66 Wrote: Excuse me, where did I say Atheists are Satanists? Believing in Satan does NOT equate to Satanism! The IQ of some Atheists on this forum is damn low.

1. You said you were a Satanist at one point (allegedly).
2. If you believe in Satan then either you believe in the god who created him, or you believe in some sort of demon you're labeling "Satan" for convenience.

Hi,
I'm not a Satanist. I'm Muslim. I said I know an Atheist who believes Satan exists because of the kind of things that they do. (They believe the Bible/Qur'an etc. are totally false but they do accept some characters existed such as Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, and yes Satan as well. And no, they don't believe in God. I geniunely don't see why you have beef with this. Why do you think it's impossible that an Atheist believes in Satan? As far as I'm concerned, it's no different to believing that Jesus Christ existed...?

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(March 10, 2013 at 8:29 pm)TromboneAtheist Wrote: I don't know if you ever said explicitly that Atheists are Satanists. I don't think you did, nor did I ever say that you said it. I was merely trying to put something out there. As far as the IQ of Atheists on this forum, I really don't know. If there were to be a scientific study comparing the average IQ of this forum's regular Atheist users to the average person, I'd hypothesize that the forum user's IQ would be higher. Just a hunch.

I seriously doubt the IQ of Atheists on this forum is high. What they are good at though, is trying to use swear words, insinuations and insults as valid arguments.

(March 10, 2013 at 8:26 pm)mo66 Wrote: Is this post pertinent to the discussion I've bee having? If it is, then you should know that I didn't make the claim that Atheists worship anything. Believing that something exists does not equate to worshipping it. If you weren't talking to me, then just ignore me

Actually it was in direct reply to TromboneAtheist but you appear to have replied faster than I could type and I couldn't be arsed to edit it; I assumed that context would make the point for me. Thanks for the invitation though.

(March 10, 2013 at 8:32 pm)mo66 Wrote: Hi,
I'm not a Satanist. I'm Muslim.

I think you misdunderstood me, perhaps I could have clarified a bit, but I was referring to this:

(March 10, 2013 at 2:52 pm)jstrodel Wrote: I was involved in the occult and satanism and drugs and God got me out of it.

(March 10, 2013 at 8:32 pm)mo66 Wrote: I said I know an Atheist who believes Satan exists because of the kind of things that they do. (They believe the Bible/Qur'an etc. are totally false but they do accept some characters existed such as Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, and yes Satan as well. And no, they don't believe in God. I geniunely don't see why you have beef with this. Why do you think it's impossible that an Atheist believes in Satan? As far as I'm concerned, it's no different to believing that Jesus Christ existed...?

But Jesus couldn't have been the son of god if there were no god. Likewise, Satan couldn't be a fallen angel if there were no angels. Unless you mean to say he believes in something merely similar to Satan (as I theorized in my last post) rather than the biblical Satan, who was cast out of heaven by god...but not really, because god doesn't exist?

(March 10, 2013 at 8:17 pm)mo66 Wrote: Believing Satan exists=\= Satanism

Ah. So you're talking about Satanists-in-name-only.

I think the regular Atheists on this forum just get so frustrated when their well-structured arguments and points get wasted on certain Theists are too thick-skulled to accept anything other than their own belief, that they have to resort to "swear words, insinuations and insults". Of course there are exceptions to this, but I've noticed that pattern on my admittedly short time on AF

(March 10, 2013 at 8:37 pm)Darkstar Wrote:

(March 10, 2013 at 8:32 pm)mo66 Wrote: Hi,
I'm not a Satanist. I'm Muslim.

I think you misdunderstood me, perhaps I could have clarified a bit, but I was referring to this:

(March 10, 2013 at 2:52 pm)jstrodel Wrote: I was involved in the occult and satanism and drugs and God got me out of it.

(March 10, 2013 at 8:32 pm)mo66 Wrote: I said I know an Atheist who believes Satan exists because of the kind of things that they do. (They believe the Bible/Qur'an etc. are totally false but they do accept some characters existed such as Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, and yes Satan as well. And no, they don't believe in God. I geniunely don't see why you have beef with this. Why do you think it's impossible that an Atheist believes in Satan? As far as I'm concerned, it's no different to believing that Jesus Christ existed...?

But Jesus couldn't have been the son of god if there were no god. Likewise, Satan couldn't be a fallen angel if there were no angels. Unless you mean to say he believes in something merely similar to Satan (as I theorized in my last post) rather than the biblical Satan, who was cast out of heaven by god...but not really, because god doesn't exist?

Wow. I'm going to try to explain it one more time as clearly as I possibly can:

An Atheist who believes Jesus existed =\=> They believe in Christianity.
An Atheist who believes Satan exists =\=> They believe Satan fell out of heaven or God created Satan etc.

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(March 10, 2013 at 8:38 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(March 10, 2013 at 8:17 pm)mo66 Wrote: Believing Satan exists=\= Satanism

Ah. So you're talking about Satanists-in-name-only.

From wiki:

"Satanism is a broad term referring to a group of Western religions comprising diverse ideological and philosophical beliefs. Their shared features include symbolic association with, or admiration for the character of, Satan, or similar rebellious, promethean, and, in their view, liberating figures."

No Atheist I know is a Satanist, in fact, Atheism and Satanism are fundamentally incompatible in my opinion. However, it is perfectly acceptable for an Atheist to believe that a being called Satan does exist, just like a being called Jesus existed.

(March 10, 2013 at 8:43 pm)mo66 Wrote: An Atheist who believes Satan exists =\=> They believe Satan fell out of heaven or God created Satan etc.

If he wasn't cast out of heaven, he is Satan in name only, and cannot possibly be the Satan from the bible. How can the Satan of the bible exist without god existing? Unless, as I have said twice, he is not exactly the same Satan. I guess he could be, and the bible just lies about his life, but that would be weird...

(March 10, 2013 at 8:50 pm)Darkstar Wrote:

(March 10, 2013 at 8:43 pm)mo66 Wrote: An Atheist who believes Satan exists =\=> They believe Satan fell out of heaven or God created Satan etc.

If he wasn't cast out of heaven, he is Satan in name only, and cannot possibly be the Satan from the bible. How can the Satan of the bible exist without god existing? Unless, as I have said twice, he is not exactly the same Satan. I guess he could be, and the bible just lies about his life, but that would be weird...

How can the Jesus Christ of the Bible exist without God existing? think about what you're saying before you say it.